High SAPS and Dual Port/Direct Turbo engines...thoughts?

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My 2nd generation 3.5 liter Ecoboost engine has a dual direct injection / port injectionn setup. What is your thoughts on using a high saps oil with this? High saps oils seem cheaper and more available than their low saps counterparts. For example Mobil 1 0w40 FS (high saps) vs Mobil 1 0W40 ESP (low saps).
 

Navi

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Im just using Mobil 1 as an example which everyone can understand. The new formulation Mobil 1 0W40 FS isnt something I would use personally.
 
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Both of the Mercedes I have owned (2018 C300 w/ 2.0T DI and 2018 GLC43 w/ 3.0TT DI) use high SAPS oils. If memory serves, MB has been using high SAPS with DI and turbocharging for quite some time, though they have recently added GPF (gasoline particulate filter) to their engine lines and are now using lower SAPS oils. I personally would have no issues using it.
 
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I think the fear of high SAPS with TGDI is a just fear mongering. I wouldn't worry about it at all. The only thing I'd worry about is the calcium and sodium content. Keep Ca <1500 ppm and no sodium is best. ZDDP is actually a good LSPI quencher, so is MoDTC, so don't be afraid to use an oil high in both.
 
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Intake valve carbon build shouldn't be an issue with the dual injection engines. My only question is if High SAPS would damage the catalytic converter long-term.
 
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I think that engine designers have been making strides in reducing LSPI in DIT engines, the Ecoboosts don't seem to have had a special propensity for LSPI damage, and the high ZDDP levels typical in high SAPS 0W40 oils also help to limit LSPI events. BUT, I would still prefer to run an SN+, d1G2, and/or Ford WSS-....-B1 oil that has been tested for LSPI mitigation in any DIT engine...having my DIT engine recalled for LSPI spooked me. Tougher to find such an oil in 0W40, the FS mentioned above might be a questionable choice given its big calcium dose but the ESP would likely be a good choice.
 

Navi

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I know about cats...expensive...so that alone would make me shy away from full saps.
 

Navi

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The engine starts fine with any oil. I think JButch knows my issue with 5W30. He has a turbo direct inject Subaru. Basically my engine and JButchs engine tears the 5W30 viscosity down to a 5W20. As for the Mobil 1 0W40 it also tears that down too which is why I shy away. There is a short list of oils which it cant tear down too far like these HDEOs. As for the 5W40 you usually end up as a 5W30 viscosity. Of course Ford says all this is perfectly ok but do you trust their advice or throw in the next grade up. A new engine costs 10 grand btw...
 
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Originally Posted by jbutch
My only question is if High SAPS would damage the catalytic converter long-term.
How do the European OEMs like Mercedes and BMW do it? Both of my MBs specified it. I believe this concern (in general) is overblown.
 

Navi

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They have different specs just like we have our specs. For example VW 505.01, BMW LongLife 04, MB 229.51 etc. The engineers match up the spec to the engine accordingly.
 
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Originally Posted by Navi
The engine starts fine with any oil. I think JButch knows my issue with 5W30. He has a turbo direct inject Subaru. Basically my engine and JButchs engine tears the 5W30 viscosity down to a 5W20. As for the Mobil 1 0W40 it also tears that down too which is why I shy away. There is a short list of oils which it cant tear down too far like these HDEOs. As for the 5W40 you usually end up as a 5W30 viscosity. Of course Ford says all this is perfectly ok but do you trust their advice or throw in the next grade up. A new engine costs 10 grand btw...
Never quite made the jump to 40 weight, but I prefer C3/E6 5w-30 oils for my Turbo GDI. I agree with Navi that GF5 5w-30 oils will shear to a 20 grade oil in our engines, in all the UOAs I did with those oil, they were in the 20 grade, some close to a 16 grade... I had excellent results with either Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30 or Mobil ESP 5w-30, they both stayed in grade. Rotella MV is SN+ and Mobil ESP isn't, but has low levels of calcium, I wouldn't worry using that oil in a LSPI prone engine. They are both Low SAPS.
 

Navi

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The damage done is over time. If I put in a full saps oil where mid saps or low saps is called for the engine isnt going to seize up. It will run just fine but what about 25000 or 50000 miles from now? A lot of guys will throw Rotella T6 or Mobil 1 0W40 FS in their Subaru and it runs great. Blackstone report looking good...but whats going on with the cat or what about deposits...etc...
 
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There is almost no downside to low SAPS C3 oils other than slightly higher cost, as long as you have ultra-low sulfur fuel. 5W30 ESP vs 0W40 FS, the ESP is simply a more polished product.
 
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Originally Posted by Navi
The engine starts fine with any oil. I think JButch knows my issue with 5W30. He has a turbo direct inject Subaru. Basically my engine and JButchs engine tears the 5W30 viscosity down to a 5W20. As for the Mobil 1 0W40 it also tears that down too which is why I shy away. There is a short list of oils which it cant tear down too far like these HDEOs. As for the 5W40 you usually end up as a 5W30 viscosity. Of course Ford says all this is perfectly ok but do you trust their advice or throw in the next grade up. A new engine costs 10 grand btw...
There was a pretty good UOA posted recently for PP 5W30 in an Ecoboost for around 11kmiles...that oil starts out pretty thin for a 5W30 at 9.8 cSt and it still qualified for the grade at the end of that long run, plus the wear metals were minimal. IIRC, you do a lot of idling so fuel contamination is probably a big concern for you and you might see a bigger loss in viscosity as a result. If you think that the grade would work for you in NYC winters, M1 10W30 HM is a higher HTHS oil for its grade (3.5mPa*s) and is also SN+ and pretty likely to stay in grade barring lots of fuel contamination. It's also pretty cheap at WM... HTHS is a more important spec to look at for engine wear than the 100C viscosity.
 
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Originally Posted by Navi
The damage done is over time. If I put in a full saps oil where mid saps or low saps is called for the engine isnt going to seize up. It will run just fine but what about 25000 or 50000 miles from now? A lot of guys will throw Rotella T6 or Mobil 1 0W40 FS in their Subaru and it runs great. Blackstone report looking good...but whats going on with the cat or what about deposits...etc...
Just what is going to happen?
 
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