High Performance Lubricants Engine Cleaner
- Thread starter High Performance Lubricants
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It sounds like using these oils that meet the spec isnt meeting much of anything at all. I'm sure Wayne's engine is fairly clean but like it was once said most oils used are commodity therefore the best and brightest ingredients and material weren't used. I'm thinking that my engine was cleaning up last time that I could probably run it for a 5000 mi duration maybe longer. I bought two quarts a while back and might start using a half a quart of the ec30 every 25,000 MI right before an oil change for a couple thousand miles.
I never looked at a uoa sample and thought about what could still be left inside of an engine. This post today leaves me to believe that there's more than meets the eye. But without doing a complete engine tear down is there any way to really know?
Jackson_Slugger
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Installed yesterday in OCI listed in the Post your latest oil change thread. Below is the QC check after driving about ten miles. I will also try to post pics after a few hundred mile intervals for posterity:
The issue is the bar is set rather low by API. Due to the way the testing is conducted, it rewards add packs and formulas that pass the minimum standard as cheap as possible with no incentive to do anything better than that. That applies to ACEA specs and OEM approvals as well, though they are stricter standards than API.
I view API cert as the "good enough degree" GED, and largely ignore it. If someone comes to me asking for a 5W-30 or 5W-40 recommendation, I tell them to find an ACEA A3/B4 oil at a minimum.
So this will be an oil color change over time type deal?
Jackson_Slugger
$50 Site Donor 2022
We will see...
Smell is important too.
Jackson_Slugger
$50 Site Donor 2022
And don't forget taste!
Shel_B
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This was discussed at the HPL get-together. For me, it was a bit of a revelation when I learned that some oils fail their original certification test, and are permitted to retest multiple times until the oil passes. I forget who said it, but a question was posed to the group to the effect of why would you want an oil that only passes the test once out of three or four times (paraphrasing here).
Yep. They could send the same add pack and formula to 4 different places for testing. So long as 1 of them returns a pass, it's an approved add pack.
If the differences in test results are within lab error, I don’t see an issue with this practice.
Shel_B
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Thanks for clarifying the process ... it was a bit vague to me.
There are multiple tiers per product line. It's not as if all off the shelf oils are just formulating to meet bare minimum specs.
Every major brand has 2-3 tiers. The top tier oils from the majors exceed by a wide margin the IVA, IIH, Seq X test etc.
Very few boutique brands can exceed what the top tier major formulations offer. The only boutique brands I find impressive are HPL and Amsoil. The rest are kind of a joke. Maxima? Royal Purple? Not impressed. Redline is OK but UOA's show it has some major formulation weaknesses. Not even impressed with Driven. Marketing and fancy bottles just like the detailing world. They hook people in with it and it's perceived they are better when in reality they are generally not. Amsoil at least demonstrates performance through testing against industry standard tests. I give them credit for that.
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I use this even in a low mileage engine : https://rislone.com/products/high-mileage-engine-treatment/ . I use it every other oil change in well-maintained engines - I believe it especially helps with valves .
Used it for years. It did quiet some hydraulic lifters for me, improved oil pressure on couple engines (or maybe simply helped the oil pressure sensor give more accurate readings, idk), quiet some valvetrains. But with all this in mind - I have never experienced results and cleaning from it that is similar to what so many people post here about their results with HPL EC.
In my mind: Rislone HMET vs HPL EC is like washing a stained driveway with a garden hose vs pressure washer. Pressure washer will take less effort, less water, less time. Just a more efficient option, despite higher initial cost, just like HPL EC.
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3500 miles on engine oil, 2500 with 1:7 Ratio of Engine cleaner 40 added to Castrol Euro 5w40.
I changed the filter out finally. The oil is definitely a rich brown color, and there is some small flecks of carbonaceous material in the filter pleats. Honestly don't feel like cutting it open.
The car has consumed 1qt of oil since adding the cleaner, so I just added another quart of Castrol 5w40. 2500 more miles and I'll be changing to HPL Supercar 0w40.
I changed the filter out finally. The oil is definitely a rich brown color, and there is some small flecks of carbonaceous material in the filter pleats. Honestly don't feel like cutting it open.
The car has consumed 1qt of oil since adding the cleaner, so I just added another quart of Castrol 5w40. 2500 more miles and I'll be changing to HPL Supercar 0w40.
Yes, they have tiers, but they're still stuck in the API box. The add packs are still blended in a 50-150 cSt group I carrier (typically) and focus is still put on reducing production cost over increasing performance. Some brands are able to do this easier (ie: Mobil 1 and Shell) as they make their own base oils as well as their own additive packages through their join ownership of Infineum. It's not until you step away from API do you start seeing better performing oils like Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 and 5W-40.
A company like Mobil 1 doesn't care as much about us buying jugs off the shelf. The money is in OEM contracts.
UOAs don't tell the whole picture. Of course you're going to see higher wear numbers the first several runs with Red Line. It contains a good bit of ester which is going to do some cleaning. Wear particles trapped in deposits/sludge get kicked into suspension and shows up high in UOA. There's also chelation and leaching, neither of which are an issue. We see it with HPL and Amsoil as well.
Royal Poop I'll agree with as they're little more than a copycat of Valvoline these days.
I have nothing bad to say about Maxima. They make good racing oils. Driven is also focused around the racing world. They don't care about the daily commuter. When they were dialing in the formula for GP-1, they gave the poor dyno a workout with over 50 builds and teardowns with mic checks before and after on everything and over a thousands hours of harsh engine run time. Their focus is the hot rod and racing community.
You can't really knock Driven for fancy bottles and marketing and then praise Amsoil and their pamphlet regurgitation association.
Jackson_Slugger
$50 Site Donor 2022
@High Performance Lubricants
Thinking about picking a few of these up but have some questions.
First, can I order a mix case of 6? For instance 4 EC 30 and 2 EC 40?
Next question is about ratios.
I have a B5 S4 that has a stock sump capacity of 6.5 qts. I use the bigger A4 filter and have a secondary oil cooler which gives me closer to 7.5 - 8 qts. Could I substitute 2 qts of the EC 40? So, it would be 2 qts of EC 40 and 5.5 - 6 regular oil.
My Impreza uses 4.7 qts. Would it be ok to use a full qt of EC 30? 1 qt EC 30 and 3.7 qts of regular oil.
Same with my Legacy. It is 5.1 qts. 1 qt EC 30 and 4.1 qts of regular oil.
And same with my CRV. That car takes 4.2 qts. 1 qt EC 30 and 3.2 qts of regular oil.
My assumption is that if the CRV is ok then the other 2 are ok. The Audi is the odd ball.
All cars get regular oil changes except the Audi. I haven't changed the oil in probably 3 years or more but probably have less than 2k miles on the oil. I also can't drive it until I re-register in the state.
The rest are either going by MM (Honda), 6k/6m (Legacy) or 6m/2kish (Impreza).
Thinking about picking a few of these up but have some questions.
First, can I order a mix case of 6? For instance 4 EC 30 and 2 EC 40?
Next question is about ratios.
I have a B5 S4 that has a stock sump capacity of 6.5 qts. I use the bigger A4 filter and have a secondary oil cooler which gives me closer to 7.5 - 8 qts. Could I substitute 2 qts of the EC 40? So, it would be 2 qts of EC 40 and 5.5 - 6 regular oil.
My Impreza uses 4.7 qts. Would it be ok to use a full qt of EC 30? 1 qt EC 30 and 3.7 qts of regular oil.
Same with my Legacy. It is 5.1 qts. 1 qt EC 30 and 4.1 qts of regular oil.
And same with my CRV. That car takes 4.2 qts. 1 qt EC 30 and 3.2 qts of regular oil.
My assumption is that if the CRV is ok then the other 2 are ok. The Audi is the odd ball.
All cars get regular oil changes except the Audi. I haven't changed the oil in probably 3 years or more but probably have less than 2k miles on the oil. I also can't drive it until I re-register in the state.
The rest are either going by MM (Honda), 6k/6m (Legacy) or 6m/2kish (Impreza).
Jackson_Slugger
$50 Site Donor 2022
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