My Bro-In-Law has got a 2002 Toyota Tundra 4.7L. He's tired of using those PUNY oil filters so when I told him we might be able to fit a 7" filter in there, he was pretty excited. My question is that Wix sells two identical 6.9" filters except for one thing, one (51773) has a 8-11 bypass setting and one (51333) has a 30 bypass setting. I he chose the 51333, would that be like having a filter with no bypass at all? And if so, wouldn't this ensure that his oil is always filtered and not going in dirty? So which one should he buy? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.
High Bypass Valve Setting = No Bypass Valve?
- Thread starter 02StangGT4Foam
- Start date
- Status
I would use the puny one spec for the truck.
30 is very high. I would rather err on the side of occasional bypass.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,793
As Keith (and others) state, the risk is in if the visc is too high and the oil pressure is close to the relief setting. You can only add 8-11 lb with the 1773 ..you can add 30 with the 1333.
That being said, the 1773 is a dog for beta rating, the 1333 is decent. They are both oversized by a good amount and should reduce any need for bypass activity. Unless he's running higher visc oil in colder then normal temps, there should be little, if any, bypass events.
So, if you're taking risks, make sure that they're well thought out risks.
That being said, the 1773 is a dog for beta rating, the 1333 is decent. They are both oversized by a good amount and should reduce any need for bypass activity. Unless he's running higher visc oil in colder then normal temps, there should be little, if any, bypass events.
So, if you're taking risks, make sure that they're well thought out risks.
Skip the biggest filter.
I've used the FL400s(PH3600) and FL1a(ph8a) on the Tundra 4.7L. The FL1a is a quart sized filter and is plenty big for a normal OCI.
The 2-quart filter (FL299) might be a tight squeeze and drivetrain movement might be something to consider when taking measurements.
And, always try to match bypass pressures. 30psi is too high. If the filter resists flow too much, the oil pump will dump oil back to the pan. I don't recommend the 1333 because noone has tested when/how long/whether there are bypass events or not. The 4.7L is a big motor and I'll assume that it can pump a helluva lot of oil when running when compared to a tiny motor using the same filter.
Since the 4.7 is a never wearing engine, I wouldn't care too much about "beta ratios". Stick with the filter that fits and more closely matches the bypass pressure.
I've used the FL400s(PH3600) and FL1a(ph8a) on the Tundra 4.7L. The FL1a is a quart sized filter and is plenty big for a normal OCI.
The 2-quart filter (FL299) might be a tight squeeze and drivetrain movement might be something to consider when taking measurements.
And, always try to match bypass pressures. 30psi is too high. If the filter resists flow too much, the oil pump will dump oil back to the pan. I don't recommend the 1333 because noone has tested when/how long/whether there are bypass events or not. The 4.7L is a big motor and I'll assume that it can pump a helluva lot of oil when running when compared to a tiny motor using the same filter.
Since the 4.7 is a never wearing engine, I wouldn't care too much about "beta ratios". Stick with the filter that fits and more closely matches the bypass pressure.
Thanks for all the responses! In order,
Jonny Z - The puny one is, I think, the smallest oil filter you can buy in the 3/4-16 oil filters. That sux and is ridiculous!!!
kanling - He is trying to go with a never bypassing filter but also one that doesn't starve the engine so occasional bypass is unacceptable.
Gary - Your opinions and advice are highly respected in my neck of the woods. So if the chance of bypass is negligible for an oversized filter, how is having a high bypass rating "bad" for this engine. BTW, he runs 5w30 RP and drives 35 to 50 miles each way to work, so I think the oil is probably thin enough to prevent a flow restriction, I think. I would have him go with the 51773 but the beta rating sux compared to the 51333. What's the point of going big if more stuff still gets through, right? So is his risk well thought out? Thanks.
unDummy - I figure that more than likely, he will end up going with the 51515, PL30001, L30001, or FL1a, but for my future knowledge, are you saying in your 3rd paragraph above that if it has a high bypass rating that it has an increased resistance to flow? I thought the bpv rating was higher because the manufacturer wanted to insure that only filtered oil went in to the engine 99.9999% of the time. Is there any truth to what I just said? Anyone?
Thanks all for the help and opinions.
Jonny Z - The puny one is, I think, the smallest oil filter you can buy in the 3/4-16 oil filters. That sux and is ridiculous!!!
kanling - He is trying to go with a never bypassing filter but also one that doesn't starve the engine so occasional bypass is unacceptable.
Gary - Your opinions and advice are highly respected in my neck of the woods. So if the chance of bypass is negligible for an oversized filter, how is having a high bypass rating "bad" for this engine. BTW, he runs 5w30 RP and drives 35 to 50 miles each way to work, so I think the oil is probably thin enough to prevent a flow restriction, I think. I would have him go with the 51773 but the beta rating sux compared to the 51333. What's the point of going big if more stuff still gets through, right? So is his risk well thought out? Thanks.
unDummy - I figure that more than likely, he will end up going with the 51515, PL30001, L30001, or FL1a, but for my future knowledge, are you saying in your 3rd paragraph above that if it has a high bypass rating that it has an increased resistance to flow? I thought the bpv rating was higher because the manufacturer wanted to insure that only filtered oil went in to the engine 99.9999% of the time. Is there any truth to what I just said? Anyone?
Thanks all for the help and opinions.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,793
"So if the chance of bypass is negligible for an oversized filter, how is having a high bypass rating "bad" for this engine."
It shouldn't be a problem. I really feel that the bypass is there to protect the media during cold starts. Aged filters will eventually show some differential due to loading ..but I think that it takes a long time to see any type of differential.
"So is his risk well thought out?"
So it would appear. Again, I wouldn't think twice about it ...well, I'd probably think many times about it ..but it would be with the full intent to do it anyway.
"I thought the bpv rating was higher because the manufacturer wanted to insure that only filtered oil went in to the engine 99.9999% of the time. Is there any truth to what I just said?"
This is a good question. As has been pointed out, the engines that sport filters with higher bpv settings tend to be more exotic or modern high performance in nature (Audi/VW). We don't know if the desired effect of the higher bpv is due to the higher stress the media can be subjected to during cold starts with their high volume pumps with spec'd 40 weight oils ...or if some filtration statndard needs to be maintained under high speed, near redline, conditions ...or if their long OCI's have something to do with it (back to some filtration standard).
"but for my future knowledge, are you saying in your 3rd paragraph above that if it has a high bypass rating that it has an increased resistance to flow?"
What I believe that unDummy is expressing is that you have a greater potential for reduced flow under some conditions. The pressure "backs up" from the engine under all conditions. If you only have a potential for the filter to present 11psi in additional pressure increase (sensed upstream at the pump) you have less potential for exceeding the pumps internal relief setting.
That said ...even with a dinky teacup filter (PL10241), under subfreezing temps ..with 4500 miles on it ..with heavy conventional oil ...I saw nothing near even the lower bypass valve setting.
Keep in mind that there's always caution included when you're handing out advice.
It shouldn't be a problem. I really feel that the bypass is there to protect the media during cold starts. Aged filters will eventually show some differential due to loading ..but I think that it takes a long time to see any type of differential.
"So is his risk well thought out?"
So it would appear. Again, I wouldn't think twice about it ...well, I'd probably think many times about it ..but it would be with the full intent to do it anyway.
"I thought the bpv rating was higher because the manufacturer wanted to insure that only filtered oil went in to the engine 99.9999% of the time. Is there any truth to what I just said?"
This is a good question. As has been pointed out, the engines that sport filters with higher bpv settings tend to be more exotic or modern high performance in nature (Audi/VW). We don't know if the desired effect of the higher bpv is due to the higher stress the media can be subjected to during cold starts with their high volume pumps with spec'd 40 weight oils ...or if some filtration statndard needs to be maintained under high speed, near redline, conditions ...or if their long OCI's have something to do with it (back to some filtration standard).
"but for my future knowledge, are you saying in your 3rd paragraph above that if it has a high bypass rating that it has an increased resistance to flow?"
What I believe that unDummy is expressing is that you have a greater potential for reduced flow under some conditions. The pressure "backs up" from the engine under all conditions. If you only have a potential for the filter to present 11psi in additional pressure increase (sensed upstream at the pump) you have less potential for exceeding the pumps internal relief setting.
That said ...even with a dinky teacup filter (PL10241), under subfreezing temps ..with 4500 miles on it ..with heavy conventional oil ...I saw nothing near even the lower bypass valve setting.
Keep in mind that there's always caution included when you're handing out advice.
Consider also that the "unfiltered" oil is not all that dirty. It was filtered before and has only made one pass through the engine before it ended up in the pan.
I suspect that no lab could see a difference between one-pass oil and zero-pass oil. (Use a threaded end bypass filter to prevent contaminants from the filter to enter the engine during bypass- most Wix are this way.)
Anyway, if your bro-in-law is deadset against bypass, he should go ahead and use the 30PSI filter. Probably it will be fine. For my own use, the risk/reward isn't high enough because I think the reward is much much smaller than the risk (which is also probably pretty small).
I suspect that no lab could see a difference between one-pass oil and zero-pass oil. (Use a threaded end bypass filter to prevent contaminants from the filter to enter the engine during bypass- most Wix are this way.)
Anyway, if your bro-in-law is deadset against bypass, he should go ahead and use the 30PSI filter. Probably it will be fine. For my own use, the risk/reward isn't high enough because I think the reward is much much smaller than the risk (which is also probably pretty small).
- Status
