Hexagonal Boron Nitride (hBN) slowly replacing ZDDP?

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Recently, it seems to me that a lot of formulations are moving away from ZDDP and going for more hBN and Mo to make up for less Zn/P.
Is this shift in the AW chemistry effective long-term?
I'm not saying that these AW additives are not studied or tested otherwise we wouldn't have seen them in finished products, still no one talks about them. I'm asking if it's possible that hBN is the lesser of two evils rather than relying on reduced Zn/P alone, and formulators knows this, yet they have no other choice.
 
That was nothing to do with the oils. The other camshaft was fine. You had an engine problem, not a lubrication problem. No matter how you try to sugar coat it.
In the Yamaha 2ZZ-GE engine, the other (exhaust) camshaft is not subject to the higher spring tension, higher boundary layer pressures and higher shear forces. Only the intake camshaft is. The wiped camshaft was absolutely caused by a lubrication problem. No matter how you try to sugar coat it.

High ZDDP is a must-have in some engines. Don't take it from me, AMSOIL explains it well.
Do Older Engines Need Oil With ZDDP Additives? - AMSOIL Blog
 
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In the Yamaha 2ZZ-GE engine, the other (exhaust) camshaft is not subject to the higher spring tension, higher boundary layer pressures and higher shear forces. Only the intake camshaft is. The wiped camshaft was absolutely caused by a lubrication problem. No matter how you try to sugar coat it.

High ZDDP is a must-have in some engines. Don't take it from me, AMSOIL explains it well.
Do Older Engines Need Oil With ZDDP Additives? - AMSOIL Blog
I think we can agree that older engines require higher concentration of ZDDP during break-in, after that, 0.1% is likely sufficient to prevent premature wear. Mobil explicitly recommends FS for older engines. Most A3/B4 oils are good enough. An oil is more than just ZDDP, unless we're talking about air-cooled engines. Some may offer effective protection with just 0.80% than an oil with 0.13%. It's like football, you can have one really good player and still lose the game because other players are ****. Don't fall for the assumption that more is better because an oil is more than just AW at the end.

Update: I will tell you a secret. Other than specifications and approvals, really easy one.

Read the PDS/TDS for a product you're interested in.
If you find an explicit claim for "wear protection" it's okay for an older engines.
If you find Something about emissions, GPF/DPF, wear CONTROL or fuel economy, RUN.
 
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That was nothing to do with the oils. The other camshaft was fine. You had an engine problem, not a lubrication problem. No matter how you try to sugar coat it.
Yep.
"Even the briefest period of oil starvation is usually fatal to this [special] engine design."
Lotus enthusiasts nod in agreement.
Yamaha tried to squeeze out extra power for Toyota with some fancy stuff at the cams.

Back to Hexagonal Boron Nitride...chemistry !!
 
The other thing about boron is its ability to stick around for an extended time in the engine, past the current OCI.
Liqui Moly advertised Ceratec protection lasts 50k km. Mannol claims the same with its Ceramo Ester (just on the tin,
they removed this from the website). Both of these use hexagonal Boron .
 
This was discussed back in 2014, comparing it to MoS2:

There's been a bit of buzz lately about Cera-Tec from Liqui-Moly, purpotedly containing a form of boron nitride (hexagonal) which is supposed to coat and cover irregularities in the metal surfaces and thus reduces friction. I have found an interesting research paper that recently tested boron nitride against MoS2 and got some interesting results. http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/MM/857.PDF

Basically they tested in a piston/cylinder model, 6 combinations:
1. plain oil(PAO)
2. plain oil + surfactant (detergent)
3. plain oil + MoS2
4. Plain oil + surfactant + MoS2
5. plain oil + boron nitride
6. plain oil + surfactant + boron nitride

They found that even (2) oil + surfactant improves friction, and even more so (as expected) if you have MoS2 added as in 3 and 4. Moreover by spectroscopy they found a layer of particles of MoS2 deposited on the surfaces, also as expected. However, in the case of the boron nitride they found nothing. Nada. No deposition of boron nitride on the surfaces, not even in traces. Nothing detected by spectroscopy.

The coefficient of friction for the samples with BN did not change, and even the gradual reduction over time they observed in plain oil plus surfactant (2) was reversed. Both the BN and MoS2 were nanoparticles, and the surfactant is one commonly used in oils as additive. Given the above, how is Cera-Tec supposed to work again?

That's the opening post. Recommend reading the thread.
 
Ok so graphene and hBN appear similar but have entirely different properties.

Now I am trying to compare them to Diamond Like Carbon.

How do these materials interact with various motor oils ?
 
Ok so graphene and hBN appear similar but have entirely different properties.

Now I am trying to compare them to Diamond Like Carbon.

How do these materials interact with various motor oils ?
Well, the paper/thread I linked was them in motor oils. Looks like, at least with the hBN, not great. Moly on the other hand, has been improved, that's why trimer was developed for example.

I think we need to be clear as to whether we are talking about coatings (DLC can be used as a coating) or FM/AW additives dissolved in engine oils.
 
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Well the standard VOA and spectroscopy is all I can find.. auto-translated CC from Spanish on youtube.
Guy looks at the safety datasheet as well, some interesting stuff.

German forum thread :

Yeah, I'm thinking like some back-to-back sequence testing with surface analysis with this product in a fully formulated oil vs just the fully formulated oil.
 
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