Check out the thread in interesting articles doug hillary camshaft lobe wear.7/11/09.
Here's A Surprise!
- Thread starter propuckstopper
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Investigate what passages are located on the valve cover above the lobe that could affect lubrication. Is there a PCV, oil cap, vent tube that could cause a draft?
Hi guys. Here's a thread I started some time ago at the Honda Element Owner's Club. You can have a listen to the ticking noise. You will also find out that I am not alone.
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57922
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57922
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: joflewbyu2
Cavitation. When air bubbles become rapidly pressurized, such as in a pump or journal bearing, destructive microjets of oil can collide with machine surfaces at extremely high velocities. Some have estimated that the velocities may approach the speed of sound. The result is a progressive localized erosion of these surfaces.
Jo:
I don't think this could be a cavitation-related problem. Again, I'm not an engineer, but I do have some understanding on this one. In my flying days, we were trained to learn and recognize the sound of cavitation occurring in our hydraulic pumps. Allowed to continue for more than a few seconds, this could spell absolute eject-now disaster, for an aircraft that depended totally upon good hyd pressure to move the flight controls.
Cavitation occurred in the hyd pumps when extreme conditions of demand, pressure, and flow caused gas bubbles to form in the fluid. The hyd system depended upon the physical performance of a liquid medium (hyd fluid -- a relative of ATF). Of course, a liquid is a non-compressible fluid. On the other hand, gasses are fluids too, but they are compressible. As I recall, the compression of bubble-laden fluid caused two very bad things -- a disastrous increase in fluid temps, and a failure of the fluid to actually move the flight controls where you wanted to move them (a very bad thing when flying).
But all this is premised upon a pressurized system. All the oil systems I know of essentially shower the cams (or the rockers) with sprayed oil (engineers forgive me if I have inartfully described this). So, if there were a problem with the oil pump cavitating for some reason (whatever it might be), I would assume that all of the cam lobes would be getting sprayed (dribbled, or whatever the right word might be) with the same bubbly, foamy oil. That again would lead to the same idea I stated in my last post -- wouldn't all the lobes be seeing the same problem, and failing in a similar fashion?
You are correct Ekpolk!! Cavitation in oil would effect everything, not just one lobe. In my experience, if the oil is holding air, the rod and main bearings will suffer first.
I have seen some pretty bad cams on motorcycles before, and they still would measure out in spec. The only way to tell for sure is to measure the bad lobe to the others. If that one is the only one out, then I would say it is defective metallurgy/hardening in production. It happens...
All manufactures have issues now and then. Does not mean every single car is junk.
Originally Posted By: joflewbyu2
Cavitation. When air bubbles become rapidly pressurized, such as in a pump or journal bearing, destructive microjets of oil can collide with machine surfaces at extremely high velocities. Some have estimated that the velocities may approach the speed of sound. The result is a progressive localized erosion of these surfaces.
Jo:
I don't think this could be a cavitation-related problem. Again, I'm not an engineer, but I do have some understanding on this one. In my flying days, we were trained to learn and recognize the sound of cavitation occurring in our hydraulic pumps. Allowed to continue for more than a few seconds, this could spell absolute eject-now disaster, for an aircraft that depended totally upon good hyd pressure to move the flight controls.
Cavitation occurred in the hyd pumps when extreme conditions of demand, pressure, and flow caused gas bubbles to form in the fluid. The hyd system depended upon the physical performance of a liquid medium (hyd fluid -- a relative of ATF). Of course, a liquid is a non-compressible fluid. On the other hand, gasses are fluids too, but they are compressible. As I recall, the compression of bubble-laden fluid caused two very bad things -- a disastrous increase in fluid temps, and a failure of the fluid to actually move the flight controls where you wanted to move them (a very bad thing when flying).
But all this is premised upon a pressurized system. All the oil systems I know of essentially shower the cams (or the rockers) with sprayed oil (engineers forgive me if I have inartfully described this). So, if there were a problem with the oil pump cavitating for some reason (whatever it might be), I would assume that all of the cam lobes would be getting sprayed (dribbled, or whatever the right word might be) with the same bubbly, foamy oil. That again would lead to the same idea I stated in my last post -- wouldn't all the lobes be seeing the same problem, and failing in a similar fashion?
You are correct Ekpolk!! Cavitation in oil would effect everything, not just one lobe. In my experience, if the oil is holding air, the rod and main bearings will suffer first.
I have seen some pretty bad cams on motorcycles before, and they still would measure out in spec. The only way to tell for sure is to measure the bad lobe to the others. If that one is the only one out, then I would say it is defective metallurgy/hardening in production. It happens...
All manufactures have issues now and then. Does not mean every single car is junk.
Last edited:
You realize this thread is from 2009? .
It could also be lack of lubrication in the area of that cam lobe. It could be taking the oil in that area longer to get to than other areas of the cam. Then after 100,000 miles it finally caught up. Does the oil hit the entire cam at the same exact time in Honda Engines? I'm just tossing this out there, I don't think its the oil.
Funny thing though if it were Castrol in the sump, M1, or RP I have a feeling the oil would be dragged under the bus. LOL
Funny thing though if it were Castrol in the sump, M1, or RP I have a feeling the oil would be dragged under the bus. LOL
Originally Posted By: rcy
You realize this thread is from 2009? .
The OP (propuckstopper) revived it because he had something else to share.
You realize this thread is from 2009? .
The OP (propuckstopper) revived it because he had something else to share.
Originally Posted By: propuckstopper
Hi guys. Here's a thread I started some time ago at the Honda Element Owner's Club. You can have a listen to the ticking noise. You will also find out that I am not alone.
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57922
Since your original post was almost 2 years ago, what was the outcome of the camshaft problem in your car?
Hi guys. Here's a thread I started some time ago at the Honda Element Owner's Club. You can have a listen to the ticking noise. You will also find out that I am not alone.
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57922
Since your original post was almost 2 years ago, what was the outcome of the camshaft problem in your car?
Hi folks. After reading this thread over again in its entirety, I just realized I did not update it properly as I did on the Honda Element site. My apologies.
I indeed changed the bad exhaust camshaft and all the rockers on the exhaust side over a year ago. The link to the sound clip here in this thread is AFTER the camshaft was changed. The weird thing is the engine makes the same sound as when it had the bad camshaft.
Again, the complete story can be found at:
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57922
Thanks!
I indeed changed the bad exhaust camshaft and all the rockers on the exhaust side over a year ago. The link to the sound clip here in this thread is AFTER the camshaft was changed. The weird thing is the engine makes the same sound as when it had the bad camshaft.
Again, the complete story can be found at:
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57922
Thanks!
Last edited:
Bad cam wasn't the cause of the sound.
38k used vehicle with ??? for maintenance, oil type....
Canadian location and those winter cold starts.... were you using 0w20 or 0w30 oil?
Try a different oil filter. Pureone's weren't too friendly with several of my engines and caused some startup clatter and different engine running noises.
38k used vehicle with ??? for maintenance, oil type....
Canadian location and those winter cold starts.... were you using 0w20 or 0w30 oil?
Try a different oil filter. Pureone's weren't too friendly with several of my engines and caused some startup clatter and different engine running noises.
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