Here's A Surprise!

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BITOG seems to be at times a collection point for people who are perfectionists. If 2 Hondas,GM, Ford or any brand break for the same reason, then the a companies entire line is junk. Oops, I forgot Toyota. They all produce their fair share of lemons.
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Originally Posted By: dishdude
This just proves all Hondas are garbage and I will never own one.

Oh wait, I thought we were talking about GM here...


Isn't it time to go dump the drip pan under your Ford?
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Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Originally Posted By: dishdude
This just proves all Hondas are garbage and I will never own one.

Oh wait, I thought we were talking about GM here...


Isn't it time to go dump the drip pan under your Ford?
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He would but it broke down on the interstate and he is waiting for it to be towed home.
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Originally Posted By: propuckstopper
Whoa guys!


I could have been viewed as a gang tackle
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Now the debate (for others) ..was it Honda or Amsoil
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I heard Amsoil screwed up a Honda camshaft
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Yep ..proof positive ..right thar!! (pointed at either product -doesn't matter).

NEVER AGAIN!! (same deal- either product)

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Right on, Gary. The whole deal has me a little puzzled. But I would be silly to blame either product. What bugs me, though, is that I am such a maintenance freak, whereas I know some people who don't know where either the quick lube or the oil plug is located.
 
This calls for a phone call to Honda, to see if they will pay for part of the cost. The vehicle is not very old, and just out of warranty. A Camshaft should last half a million miles.
 
Originally Posted By: oilyriser
This calls for a phone call to Honda, to see if they will pay for part of the cost. The vehicle is not very old, and just out of warranty. A Camshaft should last half a million miles.


Yeah, it couldn't hurt to call and plead the case to them, although he is the second owner.

OP, an easy way to post pictures is to download them to imageshack or photobucket, then just post the link. I think we'd all like to see pics of this
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I've had the same concern regarding my 05 Accord with the 2.4
Looking at the cam lobes with a flashlight induces nightmares:
the lobes appear to have a lot of wear. I am holding the 5-20 used for the first 100K responsible-switched over to 5-30.
UOAs have been STELLAR!!!!!
At the next OC in 2K, I'm ponying up for the 175 dollar ferrography test: will do another UOA in parallel--we will then have a very clear picture of the values of UOAs

Steve
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
Well Honda has had their goof ups with engines. Remember the 96 Accord oil seal that would come out of the front housing around the balance shaft. All of the oil would leak out suddenly and oops, there goes the engine. Happened to my son. Lost most of the oil in less than one mile. I had to fix the thing.


+1 they had some cam issues too. Great product, but no one is perfect!
 
Originally Posted By: . . .

More than likely a defective camshaft. If it was the oil, ALL the lobes would have damage.

I have been straining for reasons not to comment on this thread because I have learned that the merest hint that camshaft damage in a k-series engine might in any way be related to the use of 5W-20 weight motor oil quickly turns into a food fight.

But, most respectfully, I disagree with the comment above. When this sort of wear occurs -- and, yes, it is d#mn rare -- this is exactly how it occurs, and this typically is how it is discovered in a high mileage k-series engine.

To the OP: If you have a Honda service history, discuss this your servicing dealer. The dealer will discuss the issue with a regional representative, and the two may work something out with you. If, however, you are being offered a replacement camshaft (parts & labor) for $400 by Honda, take it.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Trust me, it's nothing you posted. People live for blaming something, or someone. Amsoil and Japanese cars are good targets.


Amen Brother!! we live in a society any more where people dont take the blame for their own short comings,problems,faults for stupid things they do etc.etc.I guess its just to easy to sue someone/company when they chop their fingers off while fooling around under a lawn mower.(Well,they didnt tell me it would still start while i`m under their
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Is this a rollerised rocker valve actuation on the motor? Base circle wear can be indicative of weak valve spring seat pressure or a sticking valve. Some synthetics can cause roller skating on the closure side, but I have not seen this proved to cause wear. If a roller is skating, there is a hydro wedge or good boundry lube - so (should be) no wear there ... Hmmmm.
 
Camshaft lobes are not pressurized with oil - they are splash lubricated.
Cavitation is not the problem.
First, what are the clearances? Use a stone cold engine for consistency. It is possible that the bad looking cam is NOT the offender!
There is not much load on the base of the cam and you may go the lifetime of the car with the old cam in it.
 
Originally Posted By: Gurney
Originally Posted By: . . .

More than likely a defective camshaft. If it was the oil, ALL the lobes would have damage.

I have been straining for reasons not to comment on this thread because I have learned that the merest hint that camshaft damage in a k-series engine might in any way be related to the use of 5W-20 weight motor oil quickly turns into a food fight.

But, most respectfully, I disagree with the comment above. When this sort of wear occurs -- and, yes, it is d#mn rare -- this is exactly how it occurs, and this typically is how it is discovered in a high mileage k-series engine.

To the OP: If you have a Honda service history, discuss this your servicing dealer. The dealer will discuss the issue with a regional representative, and the two may work something out with you. If, however, you are being offered a replacement camshaft (parts & labor) for $400 by Honda, take it.


Gurney:

No need for a food fight. Let's stay on target, and get the ideas involved out on the table (and try to s-can those that don't need to be on the table!!!).

OK, I think you and I crossed swords on this one before. I really don't understand how a failing of the oil can be proven, when only one of the cam lobes fails, and all the others are healthy. They are, afterall, being fed the same oil, and presumably, under similar conditions of pressure*, temperature and flow. What is your theory for how the oil could be at fault under this circumstance?

Now, I will readily admit that as to auto mechanics and engineering, I am exactly the same thing that drives me nuts in my paid job (a constitutional defense lawyer). It drives me insane when a client (usually wearing a jump suit, flip-flops, and facing a few decades behind bars) insists that his own theory of the law and the constitution trumps mine (based upon the law...) or the judge's. I'm merely a low-grade shade tree mechanic who has learned a few lessons along the way, and reads a lot on Toyota-TIS (it's really cool to have every Toyota maintenance pub created in the last 25 years at your fingertips).

With that long wind-up, I'll admit, there may be a logical theory I'm missing. But I really don't see it. Bad oil is not going to "play good" on all but one cam lobe. Nor is good oil going to "pick on" one lobe and let it be eroded away. My vote has to be for "bad metal". Unless you convince me otherwise. . .
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* please see my next post. I realize that cams don't get pressurized oil.
 
Originally Posted By: joflewbyu2
Cavitation. When air bubbles become rapidly pressurized, such as in a pump or journal bearing, destructive microjets of oil can collide with machine surfaces at extremely high velocities. Some have estimated that the velocities may approach the speed of sound. The result is a progressive localized erosion of these surfaces.


Jo:

I don't think this could be a cavitation-related problem. Again, I'm not an engineer, but I do have some understanding on this one. In my flying days, we were trained to learn and recognize the sound of cavitation occurring in our hydraulic pumps. Allowed to continue for more than a few seconds, this could spell absolute eject-now disaster, for an aircraft that depended totally upon good hyd pressure to move the flight controls.

Cavitation occurred in the hyd pumps when extreme conditions of demand, pressure, and flow caused gas bubbles to form in the fluid. The hyd system depended upon the physical performance of a liquid medium (hyd fluid -- a relative of ATF). Of course, a liquid is a non-compressible fluid. On the other hand, gasses are fluids too, but they are compressible. As I recall, the compression of bubble-laden fluid caused two very bad things -- a disastrous increase in fluid temps, and a failure of the fluid to actually move the flight controls where you wanted to move them (a very bad thing when flying).

But all this is premised upon a pressurized system. All the oil systems I know of essentially shower the cams (or the rockers) with sprayed oil (engineers forgive me if I have inartfully described this). So, if there were a problem with the oil pump cavitating for some reason (whatever it might be), I would assume that all of the cam lobes would be getting sprayed (dribbled, or whatever the right word might be) with the same bubbly, foamy oil. That again would lead to the same idea I stated in my last post -- wouldn't all the lobes be seeing the same problem, and failing in a similar fashion?
 
Regardless yopur engines gonna need servicing so the Honda dealership can handle or find a good mechanic that specializies in Honda only servicing.

It's seems Honda engines are not all that cracke-up to be. I've heard that their having premature transmission failures too.

Durango
 
Originally Posted By: Durango
Regardless yopur engines gonna need servicing so the Honda dealership can handle or find a good mechanic that specializies in Honda only servicing.

It's seems Honda engines are not all that cracke-up to be. I've heard that their having premature transmission failures too.

Durango


Oh come on. You've got to look at the whole, big picture. There have been a very few isolated problems with a couple designs. As for transmissions, early Odyssey 5-spd autos had some issues. Fixed now I understand. Against that tiny slice of problems, we have a vast number of cars that live to very ripe old ages, with few if any problems.

Second, this was a specific question about a very specific problem. It was not an invite to turn this into yet another roaring debate about Honda vs {you fill it in} or domestics vs imports. Let's stay on topic.

Finally, don't forget that modern automobiles are highly complex machines designed by imperfect humans, and the imperfect organizations that imperfect humans create. The worlds worst car maker is going to have problems, and so is the world's very worst car maker. The real question is how often the problems surface (and perhaps how serious they are when they do). The overwhelming weight of the statistical information, as well as experience, would suggest that Honda, while not perfect, is way ahead of most of its competition.

Now, what about the OP's camshaft?????
 
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