Here I go again.New ford truck burning 5w20 oil.

[Brent_G]

You have a new engine that you run hard high revs, consumption is going to be a bit high. We currently run 4 v10 tritons in wrecker service and all but 3 are using 5w20. Ford has put millions of dollars into oil research and feels comfortable with 5w20. Any engine when run at high rpms is going to burn more oil than if not, and pulling will cause an increase as well. Let the engine break in and give things time, no 2 engines wear the same. 5w20 will not cause your engine to blow into a million little bits. Our trucks have over 500k combined miles on them without any engine issues, as well as my current personal f150 running which ran 15w40 in south Dakota winters and idling thousands of hours and pulling 10k plus loads for 120k miles. The all burn similar amounts of oil(approx 1.5q) per oc of 5k,, and I run 0w20 in my truck and run great. Your engine might burn a bit as not ever engine is perfect, but I would not deviate for the manual until warranty. Our oldest v10 has 210k on it and now runs 5w30 due to consumption but it is out of warranty. It pulled a loaded semi w/ a 53 foot hopper and pup (over 110000 GVW) 32 miles to our shop while running 5w20 4 years ago.

All this hate twards Xw20 is stupid, it has been speced for 50+ years as straight 20. As long as your trucks manual says that 5w20 is required for your use pulling your loads you are fine, and ford backs that. We run 5w20 in one of our 700+ drag cars that has a ton of passes with a 200 shot of nitrous and has around 18k road mile and it has amazing oil pressure. It will not kill your engine as long as it is speced for it. Get some miles on that ford and let us know how it is running!

Sent from my IPhone

 

[electrolover]

Originally Posted By: FoxS
Originally Posted By: electrolover
I cant believe all this is over Ford not being able to hone a block or install rings properly.



I liked your pre-edited post better (but I agree with the sentiment above):

Originally Posted By: electrolover

I think its awesome the way you tell someone to prove to you stuff. Your all like spend a million bucks and ill believe you if thats always your arguement theres no way you can loose. Btw just you own a dictionary doesn't make you a triboligist..

How bout you buy two identical engines and run them a thousand hours on a dyno with 5/20 and 5/30 and then report back your findings on engine wear and that will prove to me that 5/30 isnt needed. Because im the authority and you need to convince me.




Ya they tend to ban me for running off at the mouth like that.

 

[FoxS]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Fox S
What's amusing is that skyship is in the thick oil camp but they don't want him.

No not really, he is in his own little outpost

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Fox S
What's amusing is that skyship is in the thick oil camp but they don't want him.

No not really, he is in his own little outpost.
People make the mistake that i am in the thick oil camp. I am also not against 20w oil, i have used in in my own Expedition.

What i am against is blanket statements like thinner is better and recommending it wholesale.
Ditto thick oil.

If i ran my (sold) Expedition 2v in winter 20w was the perfect choice for it but seeing Ford found it necessary to put a weight proviso on using oil i made the decision to use 30w in the summer.
With this truck i had a wide range of viscosity choices but on some new vehicles they give no choice if you want to keep the warranty.
Yet they will warranty the same engine with different oils in similar conditions elsewhere.
That's the crux of my complaint.

I also have no problem using thicker oils in engines that have issues. My M35x with VQ engine had consumption issues on 30w but ran smoother and no consumption on 0w40, UOA's showed 0w40 was like a match made in heaven for these engines.

5w20 3.5 iVTEC engines also get thicker oil, someone dropped the ball with the oil and OCI on this engine judging from the deposit and varnish fiasco that is becoming more common as these engines reach the 100K mark.

High output engines can also benefit from thicker oil IMO, but i guess it comes down to the oil for the engine in the conditions its run in.
Basically i try use what work best and keep the engine clean and healthy.
So far its been working going by the miles i get out of my engines over the last 40 yrs without a lube related failure of any kind.

I will not use PP in my engine just because its "thinner" as is often recommended by a rabid thin oil proponent on this forum or Redline because its thicker.
The engine calls for 5w30, i don't give a rats rear if it thin or thick, if it meets that and the manufacturers spec that's good enough for me.



This is my position as well

Well put sir

 

[donnyj08]

Originally Posted By: electrolover
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Originally Posted By: electrolover

mine wasnt. It rattled like heck with 5/20. 30k later with 5/30 and it doesn't use a drop of oil between changes. In reality the same 5/20 "spec" engine has 5/30 on the cap in other countries. Dont drink the coolaide. There is no mechanical reason for it. Ford just wants the extra .00001 mpg


Both yours and mine are what are called "anecdotal reports." Anecdotally speaking again, my 5.4L was no quieter on Motorcraft 10W30 than it was on Motorcraft 5W20, Royal Purple 5W20 or Castrol GTX 5W20.

But the bottom line is, for whatever reason Ford did it (and I reality don't care why), they qualified the use of 5W20 for most Ford engines in most situations. In the 13 or so years since, there hasn't been a rash of engine failures because of it. I've never seen even ONE documented failure because 5W20 was used (seems like there have to be a few, though, given the wide range of extreme operational situations in which 5W20 would be inadequate). For that reason, I can state with some certainty that there is no "mechanical reason" to run a thicker oil in these 5w20-spec'ed Ford engines, unless specified by Ford in special cases, dictated by operational conditions or some other common-sense, situationally-based reason a knowledgable owner might encounter. I contend that going heavier, without any clear, proven, "mechanical reason" is the true coolaid drinking because it's done on the basis of some "belief" not necessarily on proven fact. If you or anyone else can provide a study or long term testing that indicates the service/reliability record of the Ford Modular engine improve with 5W30, or some heavier oil, I am always open to having my mind changed. Without that, anything you or anyone else says is sheer speculation.

Frankly I don't really CARE whether the oil spec'ed by an OEM is thick or thin. It is what it is. I put some faith in OEM testing and qualifications because it is logical to do so until I have some concrete reason to doubt it in specific cases. If Ford did it for CAFE credits... who cares. They QUALIFIED it in testing and many millions of miles of operational use by customers have proven them largely right. Is 5W20 optimal in all cases, even in the Ford engines so spec'ed... of course not! But for the vast, vast, vast, overwhelming majority of operators, it is. It's really quite simple.




The only thing I can tell you is my 5.4 rattles like a bag of ball bearings on 5/20 and not with 5/30. Maybe it just wore out lashlimiters or tensioner....but the fact remains it runs better with a thicker oil. And like I said its gone 30k with 5/30 with no ill effects. Thats my clear mechanical reason!


It rattles because your 2004 model came with the old design cam phaser which ticks as a result of the cam phaser coil not being held tight against the case of the phaser. late model 05 and newer engines came with a dowel that hold the outer portion of the coil tight so it cannot tap the phaser case during low speed engine rotation. This issue is NOT related to oil at all. The only thing the thicker oil is doing is masking your tick, NOT curing it.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I've seen several 2013 Mustang GT's go through multiple blown motors. I can guarantee those cars we're raced and driven VERY hard. The failure I keep seeing is the 5.0 motors dropping a piston. Wonder if 5W50 would prevent this from happening?


Have you seen any blown BOSS 302's? That would be the alternate data point that might at least indicate whether you are OTL or potentially onto something here

I fully believe that the Coyote in the Mustang GT is spec'd for 5w20 for CAFE only. It is dissimilar from the other Modulars due to its MUCH higher power density and subsequently stands alone in that regard. The fact that its almost identical sibling spec's an oil three grades heavier speaks volumes as to what is truly optimal for that engine.



Does the owner's manual suggest running a heavier viscosity if the car sees track use? If it doesn't that's a true disservice to the customer on Ford's part.
There may be good arguments on both sides of the thick vs. thin debate but CAFE is a conflict of interest here. That's crystal clear.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I've seen several 2013 Mustang GT's go through multiple blown motors. I can guarantee those cars we're raced and driven VERY hard. The failure I keep seeing is the 5.0 motors dropping a piston. Wonder if 5W50 would prevent this from happening?


Have you seen any blown BOSS 302's? That would be the alternate data point that might at least indicate whether you are OTL or potentially onto something here

I fully believe that the Coyote in the Mustang GT is spec'd for 5w20 for CAFE only. It is dissimilar from the other Modulars due to its MUCH higher power density and subsequently stands alone in that regard. The fact that its almost identical sibling spec's an oil three grades heavier speaks volumes as to what is truly optimal for that engine.



Does the owner's manual suggest running a heavier viscosity if the car sees track use? If it doesn't that's a true disservice to the customer on Ford's part.
There may be good arguments on both sides of the thick vs. thin debate but CAFE is a conflict of interest here. That's crystal clear.


Nope it doesn't. However, it has software that monitors oil temp and reduces power output if it gets too high to keep the temperatures in check

 

[electrolover]

Originally Posted By: donnyj08


It rattles because your 2004 model came with the old design cam phaser which ticks as a result of the cam phaser coil not being held tight against the case of the phaser. late model 05 and newer engines came with a dowel that hold the outer portion of the coil tight so it cannot tap the phaser case during low speed engine rotation. This issue is NOT related to oil at all. The only thing the thicker oil is doing is masking your tick, NOT curing it.



Sounds like you got my truck all figured out.......wish I could diagnose an engine without seeing or hearing it. You should be a mechanic for ford

 

[electrolover]

http://www.f150forum.com/f4/

Just incase you wanna do a little research on all the things that make one tick rattle and bang. Its been covered heavily with many threads including videos and descriptions of the different rattle problems and how to tell them apart.

Hint: 20/50 wont quiet down a phaser and they tend to knock all the time not just on start up, Vct solenoids make it sound like a diesel when they go bad and timing chain tensioners and lash limiters rattle on start up when they are wore.

 

[accent2012]

5w20 is not recommended for heavy loads. Ford states this. Why are you using 5w20 oil and carrying heavy loads? You are basically setting yourself up for engine failure and Ford will deny warranty.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Fox S
What's amusing is that skyship is in the thick oil camp but they don't want him.

No not really, he is in his own little outpost.
People make the mistake that i am in the thick oil camp. I am also not against 20w oil, i have used in in my own Expedition.

What i am against is blanket statements like thinner is better and recommending it wholesale.
Ditto thick oil.

If i ran my (sold) Expedition 2v in winter 20w was the perfect choice for it but seeing Ford found it necessary to put a weight proviso on using oil i made the decision to use 30w in the summer.
With this truck i had a wide range of viscosity choices but on some new vehicles they give no choice if you want to keep the warranty.
Yet they will warranty the same engine with different oils in similar conditions elsewhere.
That's the crux of my complaint.

I also have no problem using thicker oils in engines that have issues. My M35x with VQ engine had consumption issues on 30w but ran smoother and no consumption on 0w40, UOA's showed 0w40 was like a match made in heaven for these engines.

5w20 3.5 iVTEC engines also get thicker oil, someone dropped the ball with the oil and OCI on this engine judging from the deposit and varnish fiasco that is becoming more common as these engines reach the 100K mark.

High output engines can also benefit from thicker oil IMO, but i guess it comes down to the oil for the engine in the conditions its run in.
Basically i try use what work best and keep the engine clean and healthy.
So far its been working going by the miles i get out of my engines over the last 40 yrs without a lube related failure of any kind.

I will not use PP in my engine just because its "thinner" as is often recommended by a rabid thin oil proponent on this forum or Redline because its thicker.
The engine calls for 5w30, i don't give a rats rear if it thin or thick, if it meets that and the manufacturers spec that's good enough for me.



This is my position as well

Well put sir

+2 Blanket statements and one size fits all doesn't cut it in my book either.

 

[Clevy]

2004 ford engines don't have cam phasers. They are 2v and the cams aren't variable. That didn't come out til 05.
So the guy talking up there is mistaken

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: accent2012
5w20 is not recommended for heavy loads. Ford states this. Why are you using 5w20 oil and carrying heavy loads? You are basically setting yourself up for engine failure and Ford will deny warranty.


That's not true. It recommends 5W20 for all conditions for this vehicle. It's a work truck for goodness sakes, do you really think they spec an oil to drive it around empty?

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
My dodge has 255000 running 5w-20 all its life. No consumption that I've noticed and easily shreds the tires in 2wd and will jump when in 4wd 3/4 throttle.
I've personally seen 350000kms on ford 5.4 2v engines driven like trucks,pulling loaded trailers to and from the job sites and in mud up to the doors,so the 20 grades in the ford modulars,and in the hemi's seem to be doing just fine.
I personally saw yesterday a gent come in to my friends body shop as I was changing my oil with an 04 hemi with 420000kms on it.
I of course asked him how he uses it and oil choice. He stated he bought the truck new,pulls a trailer with a full load full of equipment and scaffold for stucco application,it sees bumper to bumper traffic,fully loaded and its been dealer serviced with whatever 5w-20 that is in the bulk containers.
He also stated it consumes no oil between 6000-8000 km oil changes and the motor runs flawlessly. He did state he is on his 3 transmission due to the constant overloaded towing he does.
So,skyship,should he expect his engine to dissolve in short order,should I inform the countless carpenters in the sub-divisions I work in that their ford 2v are going to fail shortly and they should expect to need new engines. If so I will get the bullhorn and let em know


Where did I say the engine would dissolve if you use 5/20? If you can only do 65mph and keep changing the oil at what is a record rate for a vehicle in commercial use and don't have an emission test to limit engine life it might well last 500K km.
My main point is that Ford and nearly all the other car manufacturers are lying to their customers in the US to earn CAFE credits. They are also wasting a huge amount of oil and filters, the LM site that lists 5/30 and 40 oils is correct, BUT they always print the OEM oil change figures which are incredibly short. If you use a top quality HC Longlife 0/30 you could double the OCI and add a few hundred thousand miles to the engines life expectancy if it is used hard.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: skyship



My main point is that Ford and nearly all the other car manufacturers are lying to their customers in the US to earn CAFE credits. They are also wasting a huge amount of oil and filters, the LM site that lists 5/30 and 40 oils is correct, BUT they always print the OEM oil change figures which are incredibly short. If you use a top quality HC Longlife 0/30 you could double the OCI and add a few hundred thousand miles to the engines life expectancy if it is used hard.



Will you please quit making things up? 1) this vehicle doesn't fall under CAFE regs, it never has, 2)drain interval and viscosity are not related. One could use a long-drain 20W oil just as well as a long-drain 30W oil. M1EP, Amsoil 0W20 SSO or PZ Ultra 5W20 will all last as long as any 30W oils.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: FoxS
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Nobody anywhere said that Ford didn't test...


Oh yes they did.


Oh no they didn't...the statement regarding denial that tests took place was a strawman invented by a former member as a way to discredit his opponent...who never stated that the tests didn't take place...I was in the thread, went back and checked.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
My thoughts on a slightly heavier grade are borne from 4 decades of wearing out service trucks in one of the hardest duty cycles on the planet. We routinely run the spec oil until the consumption inevitably increases at very high mileage.

Then we simply go up one grade. This has worked in dozens of GM, FORD, and Chrysler products I have owned over the many years I have run fleets of vehicles for both myself and others. 90% of these were V-8's, with a few old school Ford straight 6's.

Since this hurts nothing it is a harmless experiment and worthy of a try once the OP exhausts the usual remedies. If the OP has some sort of mechanical malady then all bets are off, but I'm betting his issue may even resolve itself over time.

Jim, with all due respect I do not share your intense faith in mfgr r&d. I have seen many technologies (DI for example) come to market very unproven and be developed by the early adopters!



Absolutely correct, a modern engine often takes 100K km to be fully run in and during that time using an oil that causes more wear does not matter much, BUT once there is any sign of an increase in oil consumption you are on the downhill part of the engine life curve and you should change to the best oil for minimum wear factors.
OEM testing is mostly about reducing the manufacturers costs in component terms, it's not done to provide a customer with the an engine that can last 20 or 30 years of hard use like some of the old blocks, they are willing to tollerate some failures in warranty if the CAFE credits are worth it and they don't seem to care about OCI's or oil consumption. Most OEM testing is in effect reverse quality control.
The Ford dealers overseas are much more interested in engine life and servicing requirements, particularly for commercial vehicles and if Ford could demonstrate that their cheap oil was good, they would recommend its use, but only the hybrid engine manufacturers have provided data showing 0 or 5/20 use is good so far.

 

[electrolover]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
2004 ford engines don't have cam phasers. They are 2v and the cams aren't variable. That didn't come out til 05.
So the guy talking up there is mistaken


There was actually two trucks in 04. One was called the heritage and it was really an 03. And then there was the regular 04 with a 5.4 3 valve.. your welcome to click that link I posted and brush up on ford trucks before sticking your foot in your mouth again. Lol just kidding man

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: FoxS
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Nobody anywhere said that Ford didn't test...


Oh yes they did.


Oh no they didn't...the statement regarding denial that tests took place was a strawman invented by a former member as a way to discredit his opponent...who never stated that the tests didn't take place...I was in the thread, went back and checked.


I remember too when Mark posted the Ford test and I asked him if he was there when they did the testing. LOL Engines are tested all the time, no doubt about it. Unfortunately the more realistic testing usually occurs when the public gets the vehicles.

Shannow the former member was reincarnated, he came back 12/17/12. LOL

Back on topic, OP give that engine some time, see what happens.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: electrolover
Originally Posted By: Clevy
2004 ford engines don't have cam phasers. They are 2v and the cams aren't variable. That didn't come out til 05.
So the guy talking up there is mistaken


There was actually two trucks in 04. One was called the heritage and it was really an 03. And then there was the regular 04 with a 5.4 3 valve.. your welcome to click that link I posted and brush up on ford trucks before sticking your foot in your mouth again. Lol just kidding man

Your right. I thought the mustang was the first ford V8 to get a 3V in 05,but ford did make a 3V in 04.
Thank you for making me look into that. I hate being wrong but I do value good info.
Thanks