Here are some... filter questions!

[Adventurer_96]

I know it's maybe a little crazy to expect it in this forum

, but I've got a filter question that's a little long.

Background: I've got a 1965 Sunbeam Tiger, for those who are unfamiliar it's a British 2-door convertible that had a Ford 260 (or 289 later on) V-8 installed under the hood. In doing this, they had to install a remote oil system on this for the FL1A filter.

Well, last weekend my remote oil system failed in my friend's driveway, leaving a huge stain and a burning desire to get rid of the 40-year-old remote oil system. Come to find out there are two options.

1. Install a Ford 90-degree adapter for the filter, and use a slightly smaller filter, the PH3600 (sorry about the Fram reference, it's not my link)
http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/Dealer_Accessories/mp-FilterAdapter3.asp

2. Install a smaller height filter straight onto the block, namely an STP 3512.

Here are my questions: Would I be losing any protection by going with the STP small filter? The STP filter is the only one I could find locally in that size/application. It seems to me that if a smaller filter would have worked on this engine, then Ford or Sunbeam would have used it. However, I'm also guessing that filter technology has progressed in the last 40 years to allow a smaller, more efficient filter. But, I'm not sure, which is why I'm posting here.

I intend to use the STP filter long enough to start the car at a minimum and put it on a trailer for a move, but after that I'm considering using the 90-degree adapter in the link for general peace of mind with a larger filter. If I go this route, what would be the general consensus for an oil and filter combination? I've got 500 miles on a freshly rebuilt engine, and I was going to use Castrol GTX 10w30 for another 500 miles and switch to Mobil 1 10w30, but what filter would you guys recommend?

Thanks in advance. I have to say I read through the forum a bit as I just changed the oil in my Yukon, and I want to take it back in to change it out since I used a Fram oil filter without knowing any better... Forgive me!!!

 

[UncleS2]

A Sunbeam Tiger? Outstanding!

I'd choose the 90* adapter & use the long slim filter. I looked it up, & that little short squatty STP 3512/equivalent just looks *too* short, like it can't have very much filtration media in it. You may be happy to know that in place of that evil Fram PH3600, you can use a MotorCraft FL400S, should be a good filter to stick with for the long haul- that or a Wix 51516, or the Purolator or Champion equivalent. Notice I included almost everybody but Fram.

Since it's a Ford V-8, & the MC is available at Walmart for about $3.25, I'd use the MotorCraft. Excellent filter with a red silicone
rubber anti-drainback valve.

Oil? Lotsa good choices now. Castrol 10w30 should be very good, as would Pennzoil, Havoline, Chevron, & the list goes on. Or you might consider one of the Conoco-Phillips family of "synthetic blends" in 5/10w30- MotorCraft, Phillips 66 TropArtic, Union 76, or Kendall GT-1.

You want a recommendation, so here goes: if it was mine I'd use the 90* adapter, the MotorCraft FL400S filter, & Havoline oil in 5w30 or 10w30. Why Havoline? The current formula has a lot of moly in it, & you've just rebuilt that engine. They should work very well together & give you a good smooth "break-in". And it's on sale through Sunday at Fred's Discount stores for $1.35/qt!

Ahh, don't worry about the Fram on the Yukon, we all had to learn somehow. Just finish out the current OCI, & next time you change the oil- use one of those ABF filters. You know- Anything But Fram!

 

[Filter guy]

How many miles per year do you drive? How often do you change oil?

I doubt the switch to a "smaller" filter will effect your situation.

And yes the STP filter media is a better choice versus most competitors unless you want to go to the top of the line Mobil 1 type filter.

And the media in the STP now versus the filter media from 40 years ago is just a bit better..

 

[Adventurer_96]

Thanks for the replies. If/when I swap over to the 90-degree setup, I'll go MC or Mobil 1 for filters then based on your recommendations. That seems to jive with what I've been told.

Stuart, I'm with you, maybe it's all in my head but I guess I'd prefer to use the larger filter with more media in it. Filter guy is probably right though, after all this short filter setup was recommended to me by two of the top Tiger guys in LA and there have been improvements in the last 40 years. But, I don't want to save $75 in the short run but have oil system issues in the long run. Like I mentioned, I'll have to use the short filter at least for the forseeable future, but at least I've got some good food for thought for the larger filter adapter project. In the meantime, I won't worry about using the short filter until I make up my mind.

To answer the how many miles/how often questions, I don't really know yet in that car! I purchased it two years ago and had to do a restoration on it. My guess is about 3-5k a year, and I'll probably change the oil once every 3-4 months as an excuse to get under the car and inspect. I'm glad that the STP filter is good stuff since it was a real pain to find that size anywhere.

I went with Castrol 10w30 because I'll only be driving it in fair to hot weather, and I've heard it said that you want to use mineral oil during the initial stages of breaking in the engine then a high grade synthetic for regular use. In case it's not obvious I'm not an oil or mechanical expert...

I've already picked up the oil or I would have taken your advice and gone with the Havoline based on the moly content. I have to admit I'm a little paranoid about metal content in the oil following the rebuild, I flushed the coolant system and it had a fair amount of metal, so I'm guessing the oil will be the same. Unfortunately, I can't check it out as it's all over my friend's driveway... I've always been a fan of Castrol ever since I was a teenager, maybe as a result of their commercials but I've also never heard a bad word about their company. I chose Mobil 1 though because I use it in my motorcycle and it's got a great rep, too. In fact, the engine rebuild book I've got recommends the Castrol/Mobil 1 breakin/longterm use combination.

Another question - are there any performance drawbacks to using a remote oil filter setup, or is it the same level of protection you'd get on a block-mounted unit?

 

[Filter guy]

Same level of protection.

Remote mount oil filters weren't unusual in the 50's. They are now.

As many miles as you'll be putting on, the smaller filter will be no problem. You should be able to get 3,000 miles easy on the filter. So you're changing much sooner than that.

A friend of mine went to a swap meet to look for some parts for his old 48Chev.

He saw a Viper V10 engine for sale. Not sure what happened to the car..but the engine had a Super Tech filter on it..

Your STP filter is a step up from the Super Tech performance wise.

 

[Adventurer_96]

Ha! Thanks, I figured that between low miles, easy driving and modern filters I'd be OK but it might be a good project to restore the remote system. One day...

 

[UncleS2]

If FG thinks that little fat squatty filter is fine for not-too-long OCI's, then I stand corrected. So long as you can find them, it'll save you a good bit of $$ over buying the 90* adapter, and it's one less thing to leak!

 

[Adventurer_96]

Very true, very true. Lord knows I'll need the $$$ for something else on this car!

 

[UncleS2]

What, a 40 yr old car cost $$ to keep going? Nah, that'll never happen!

Found you a couple of other part numbers, nothing in AC-Delco, but crossing from an STP 3512(S3512?), got this:
Wix 51335,
or (for emergencies only!), Fram PH3512. This filter fits a lot of Renault models, among other things. I've also seen similar filters(maybe the same one) on some lawn tractors.

And come to think of it, there's no good reason I couldn't use that same filter on my Neon!

 

[unDummy]

What was the CAUSE of the failure?? hose? gasket? lack of inspection/maintenance?....

Depending on the remote filter's mounting location, besides a bigger filter with more capacity, you might lose some oil cooling from the filter location. Monitor your oil temps with the reduce oil capacity/cooling.

I see no problem with using the stubby STP filter for moving your car around. Make sure your oil level is full since you probably lost a bunch when the 'remote filter' leaked. I would not treat the stubby filter as a permanent solution.

I'd replace or repair(depending on failure point) the remote filter. A new permacool remote oil filter kit is cheaper then that Ford 90 degree filter adapter.

 

[Adventurer_96]

Thanks, it is indeed a Renault filter, you have to be careful though as they went to metric threads around the latter half of 1984 I believe.

I haven't removed the unit yet to really get an idea of where it failed this time (it failed 30 years ago on the top of the filter, they brazed or welded the tube back together) but I believe it's either the tubes underneath or the flexible rubber line. I'll have to see.

Cooling in this car is a topic that has a lot of finer points to it, an oil cooler was incorporated into later Tigers but this one doesn't have one.

I'm guessing about 4.5 quarts went into my friend's driveway. At least I've got a surefire reason to change the oil in the coming week.

How much is the Permacool kit? What's it look like?

 

[unDummy]

Available at most speed shops but sometimes found on ebay:
http://www.perma-cool.com/Catalog/Cat_page27.html

Various industrial supply houses and speed shops sell the oil hose, the block mount adapters, and the filter mounts, if you want to make your own.

 

[Adventurer_96]

That seems like a better setup than the rigid brass tube setup that the car came with, but for now I'm going to wait to do anything beyond install the short filter.

Thanks.

 

[alreadygone]

Have never seen that particular remote kit, but I'd be all over it!

As filter guy said, level of protection is the same and you can put it wherever YOU want!

Use the short filter for now,,, when you can afford it get the kit.

Bob

 

[Adventurer_96]

Between the move, the oil stains in my friend's garage, and having to get this car onto a trailer to move it, I'll be focusing on the "must-do" stuff first.

Problem is, this car is really close to original, and while I'm not really adverse to updating some things (like my radiator and fan) I'm on the fence about others.

 

[Big Jim]

Two thoughts about shorter filters. The Motorcraft FL-300 is the same as the FL-1 except the height is about the same as the FL-820S. The other thought about a squatty really short filter is the one used by Volvo for several years before they went to the cartridge type. They mount where an FL-1 does, but it is really short. The ones made by Mann are excellent quality filters as well.

 

[Adventurer_96]

Still running the short filter, although I changed over to Mobil 1 10w30 for my oil. I plan on driving this car very, very little.