Help....mixed Hoat with OAT

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Originally Posted by StevieC


Furthermore I will say again. HOAT = OAT + IAT ............. OAT is without IAT.



Where do you come up with this stuff?
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
Because it's on the internet it must be true right?

Furthermore I will say again. HOAT = OAT + IAT ............. OAT is without IAT. It's not chemically possible for it to be incompatible with each other and to cause a problem.



YES, it is possible for them to be incompatible, in several different ways, as I already explained. A HOAT uses an inorganic acid and inorganic components selected for compatibility. An OAT has no such constraint, and its inorganic acid may be completely incompatible with the inorganic components of the HOAT. That's why DexCool can use 2EHA as its organic acid, but G-05 doesn't... just to cite one example.
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
Because it's on the internet it must be true right?

Furthermore I will say again. HOAT = OAT + IAT ............. OAT is without IAT. It's not chemically possible for it to be incompatible with each other and to cause a problem. It's why OAT can be used anywhere HOAT can but not the other way around because of material compatibility with the IAT in HOAT not being compatible in OAT only systems. It has nothing to do with the chemical itself compatible with each other.

I've seen the results of mixing the two, OAT and HOAT. I also have a friend who is a Chrysler/Jeep tech, that has dealt with it first hand. I take his word as Gospel on this. If you don't believe me, all I can say is go for it and [good luck to ya], or you can lead a horse to water.
wink.gif


Anyone else reading this, don't do it. Get the proper coolant and top up with that, or distilled water. I have no experience with mixing a universal coolant with it, so I won't comment on it.
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
HOAT is a combination of OAT and IAT (IAT is traditional green coolant)

Absolutely NOT true. (Edit) - while HOAT may be a hybrid of OAT and IAT TECHNOLOGIES, it is by no means a "mix" or "combination" of the two. Wording is the key. Just because the two technologies were hybridized into HOAT does NOT mean the two can be mixed together.

Originally Posted by StevieC
Nothing disastrous will happen, just less corrosion protection if you use HOAT where OAT is called for. Seriously folks here need to calm down. It's not DEXCOOL.


Actually, the OAT in question is almost certainly what is referred to as "Mopar Purple" which is, for all intents and purposes, a "Dex Clone", just like the "Ford Orange".

Have a look at this site.
 
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I wouldn't be concerned. If you have your doubts, flush it. Coolant isn't that expensive and is a component of vitality.
 
Here you go.

Quote
What do IAT and OAT mean?
As we have seen, Inorganic acid technology (IAT) is the chemical composition for the traditional green, yellow or blue antifreeze.

Organic acid technology (OAT) on the other hand is a Long Life Coolant usually made of ethylene glycol and is commonly used in Europe. It also has a vastly superior recommended replacement is 5 years or 240,000km

Hybrid Organic Acid Technology (HOAT) is a combination of IAT and OAT with nitrites and actually existed prior to the development of OAT technology. The generally recommended replacement interval is 3 years or 240,000km


https://www.finol.ie/news/antifreeze-coolants-explained/ (Just for some source that isn't biased or full of turkeys on some vehicle forum that don't know what they are talking about)

AGAIN I STATE I DID THIS WITH MOPAR COOLANT HOAT/OAT AND IT WAS JUST FINE.


Officially done in this thread.
 
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A little G-05 won't hurt things, if anything the borate component in G-05 might be the most harmful. If it makes you sleep better at night, do a drain and fill with the right stuff.

We don't know what organic acid Mopar is using in their OAT coolant - and they are sourcing it from Petrobras(Paraflu) for Italian-made cars or CCI for North American production - CCI being the supplier of choice to the Japanese OEMs and Old World(Peak) and Valvoline(Zerex, at least the non-BASF formulae). G-05 is using sodium benzoate. Dex-Cool/Clone using 2-EHA and sodium/potassium neodeconate should also be compatible with OEM OAT coolants.
 
Here's an older TSB from Chrysler regarding OAT and HOAT mixing. This was issued around the time they made the change to the OAT coolant. I wouldn't be mixing it, and I wouldn't be suggesting mixing it.



TSB - 07-004-12 REV. A
SUBJECT:
Attention! Release Of New Engine Coolant Organic Additive Technology (OAT)
MODELS:
2013 (D2) Ram Truck (3500 Pick Up)
2013 (DD) Ram Truck (3500 Chassis Cab)
2013 (DJ) Ram Truck (2500 Pick Up)
2013 (DP) Ram Truck (4500 / 5500 Chassis Cab)
2013 (DX) Ram Truck (Mexico)
2013 (DS) Ram Truck (1500)
2013 (FF) Fiat 500
2013 (JC) Journey
2013 (JK) Wrangler
2013 (JS) Avenger/200
2013 (LC) Challenger
2013 (LD) Charger
2013 (LX) 300
2013 (MK) Compass/Patriot
2013 (PF) Dart
2013 (RT) Town & Country/Grand Caravan
2013 (WD) Durango
2013 (WK) Grand Cherokee
2013 (ZD) Viper
NOTE: This bulletins applies to all vehicle listed above for every engine application
EXCEPT the 2013 MK equipped with the 2.2L Diesel engine (sales code ENE)
and the JC vehicle equipped with the 2.0L Diesel engine (sales code EBT).
NUMBER:
07-004-12 REV. A

GROUP:
Cooling

DATE:
November 03, 2012

DISCUSSION:
Chrysler Corporation LLC. has released a new engine coolant for the 2013 model year
vehicles and beyond, for all engine applications except the ones listed in the note above.
This new coolant is an Organic Additive Technology (OAT) (
Fig. 1). OAT coolants have a
service interval of 10 years or 150,000 miles. For heavy duty truck and extreme duty cycle
applications refer to the Service Information or Owner's Manual for proper maintenance
schedules.

CAUTION: Vehicle Damage may occur if dissimilar coolants are mixed!
Coolants of different technologies are not compatible nor interchangeable (OAT, HOAT or
IAT).
Mixing these coolants could result in:
• accelerated corrosion within the engine and cooling systems.
• the coolant having an ammonia smell.
• debris (particles) floating in the coolant.
Further inspection by the technician may find corrosion in the system. This could show up
as aluminum pipes turning black in the coolant system, engine overheat, or leaks in the
coolant system.
NOTE: If OAT (MOPAR P/N 68163848AA Purple) has been Mixed with HOAT (MOPAR
P/N 68048953AB Pink Or Factory Fill HOAT Orange (
Fig. 2) or (Fig. 3)) or any
other coolants have been mixed, it will be necessary to flush the cooling

system.
 
Originally Posted by SirTanon
Originally Posted by StevieC
HOAT is a combination of OAT and IAT (IAT is tverraditional green coolant)

Absolutely NOT true. (Edit) - while HOAT may be a hybrid of OAT and IAT TECHNOLOGIES, it is by no means a "mix" or "combination" of the two. Wording is the key. Just because the two technologies were hybridized into HOAT does NOT mean the two can be mixed together.


Very well said!
 
demarpaint,

They are referring to usng HOAT in an OAT only system because the OAT only system have materials that are not compatible with HOAT coolant in terms of corrosion protection. I'm aware of this TSB.
It has nothing to do with HOAT and OAT Mopar coolants not being compatible with each other chemically.

It's why they allow the use of OAT in older HOAT systems in Chrysler vehicles.

Notice that this applies to 2013 vehicles and not earlier models as well? They are concerned of someone dumping in HOAT into 2013 and newer vehicle but not concerned with dumping in OAT into older HOAT systems.

Call up a parts counter they will tell you OAT can be used in the 2012 Caravan but HOAT can't be used in a 2018 Caravan.
 
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Originally Posted by zrxkawboy
Originally Posted by SirTanon
Originally Posted by StevieC
HOAT is a combination of OAT and IAT (IAT is tverraditional green coolant)

Absolutely NOT true. (Edit) - while HOAT may be a hybrid of OAT and IAT TECHNOLOGIES, it is by no means a "mix" or "combination" of the two. Wording is the key. Just because the two technologies were hybridized into HOAT does NOT mean the two can be mixed together.


Very well said!



Here you go.

Quote
What do IAT and OAT mean?
As we have seen, Inorganic acid technology (IAT) is the chemical composition for the traditional green, yellow or blue antifreeze.

Organic acid technology (OAT) on the other hand is a Long Life Coolant usually made of ethylene glycol and is commonly used in Europe. It also has a vastly superior recommended replacement is 5 years or 240,000km

Hybrid Organic Acid Technology (HOAT) is a combination of IAT and OAT with nitrites and actually existed prior to the development of OAT technology. The generally recommended replacement interval is 3 years or 240,000km


https://www.finol.ie/news/antifreeze-coolants-explained/ (Just for some source that isn't biased or full of turkeys on some vehicle forum that don't know what they are talking about)

AGAIN I STATE I DID THIS WITH MOPAR COOLANT HOAT/OAT AND IT WAS JUST FINE.
 
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Yes, yes.. HOAT is basically an OAT with the addition of a "traditional" inorganic inhibitor, such as silicates or phosphates, but I still maintain that this does not make it compatible with either a traditional IAT, or a modern OAT.

Also, in that link (and the part you quoted), they talk about Nitrites being added to IATs and OATs to make HOAT. This is generally untrue, and as I recall, NOAT is considered a different thing altogether. HOATs typically utilize silicates and phosphates, not Nitrites.. If they have Nitrites, that is usually listed as an additional component.
 
Ok...........I only drove the van from my shed to the house garage.........I drained the overflow jug and refilled with OAT.
 
Originally Posted by SirTanon
Yes, yes.. HOAT is basically an OAT with the addition of a "traditional" inorganic inhibitor, such as silicates or phosphates, but I still maintain that this does not make it compatible with either a traditional IAT, or a modern OAT.

Also, in that link (and the part you quoted), they talk about Nitrites being added to IATs and OATs to make HOAT. This is generally untrue, and as I recall, NOAT is considered a different thing altogether. HOATs typically utilize silicates and phosphates, not Nitrites.. If they have Nitrites, that is usually listed as an additional component.


Threads like this one can cause confusion. I have an 08 Jeep and a 2016, mixing OAT and HOAT will cause problems in both vehicles. Many Jeep learned the hard and costly way when Jeep made the coolant change from Orange to Purple coolant. Mixing the two even in small amounts caused problems.
 
Originally Posted by fins
Ok...........I only drove the van from my shed to the house garage.........I drained the overflow jug and refilled with OAT.


Good move!!
 
I'll mix the two in a clear jar as I have some and take a picture. Then I'll heat it to 220F in the jar and show you. Nothing will happen chemically.
 
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Originally Posted by StevieC
I'll mix the two in a clear jar as I have some and take a picture. Then I'll heat it to 220F in the jar and show you. Nothing will happen chemically.


That proves nothing in a cooling system. Try mixing it in lets say a 2011-2016 Chrysler that came with an OAT or HOAT factory fill in the cooling system and driving it. That is a valid real world test when telling people the mix won't do any harm. Then tell those who had a problem that they didn't have a problem. The TSB I pasted advises against it, sorry to say I'll believe that.
 
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by StevieC
I'll mix the two in a clear jar as I have some and take a picture. Then I'll heat it to 220F in the jar and show you. Nothing will happen chemically.


That proves nothing in a cooling system. Try mixing it in lets say a 2011-2016 Chrysler that came with an OAT or HOAT factory fill in the cooling system and driving it. That is a valid real world test when telling people the mix won't do any harm. Then tell those who had a problem that they didn't have a problem. The TSB I pasted advises against it, sorry to say I'll believe that.


It will prove that the coolant was fine to be mixed chemically however I never said it would be fine in terms of corrosion protection in a cooling system. This corrosion can lead to things like sludge etc. if this mixture was in great amounts in a OAT cooling system for prolong periods of time because what is in the HOAT isn't compatible with the materials used in the cooling system in OAT filled vehicles. It would also prove that using OAT in a HOAT system is perfectly fine because HOAT contains OAT anyway and if they don't react chemically during the test then it would be fine in a HOAT system.
 
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