I've used Rotella in our 97 Saturn (130,000 miles) as an oil consumption cutter. Both the 5W40 "syn" and the 15W40 "regular" seem to work really well, and at a good price.
HDEO USE IN CARS
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Rotella 15w-40 has a pour point of -40 F so would this be good for use down to about 0 F? I'd like to use 15w-40 'year 'round but I'm concerned in the winter as it occasionally gets down to about 0 or a few degrees below. With a pour pioint of -40 I'm think I might be OK--thoughts?
I would not use a 15w-40 at 0 degrees F. Pour point is a lousy indicator of an oils ability to crank and pump at extremes. CCS and MRV are the real indicators, and by definition, a 15w-40 cranks essentially the same as a 10w-30 would 10 degrees colder. aka, a 10w-30 at -10F would be about equal to a 15w-40 at 0 degrees F.
10w-30 Rotella would be a better choice and I have seen it at Walmart before.
10w-30 Rotella would be a better choice and I have seen it at Walmart before.
I think I'll use the Rotella 15w-40 in the warmer months (April-October) and the Rotella Syn 5w-40 in the colder months to avoid any cold flow issues.
Using HDEO in gasoline engines will not hurt the O2 sensors nor the catalytic converter. These oils are rated SL for use in gasoline engines, so I can't understand why someone would think they'd hurt anything.
Interesting that all these Nissans also did well on 'thinner' oil:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post726765
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post725510
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post255841
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post255301
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post254831
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post254578
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post253669
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post253135
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post252987
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post252806
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post245939
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post726765
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post725510
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post255841
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post255301
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post254831
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post254578
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post253669
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post253135
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post252987
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post252806
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=2#Post245939
My main concern is that dual steel time chain, not all Nissans have them, mine does. I remember Japanese manufactures being worried about SM rated oil protecting adequately. My QR25DE also has a counter balance which really works the oil hard, I like the heavier oil in it when temps allow me. I use 0-30 XD3 year round except for the blend of 75%/25% 0-30/15-40 in heat of summer when it can get up to 100F or 40C July and August. That blend really works great summer, wouldn't use it winter, straight 0-30 then, spring and fall.
Thanks for all the links on Nissan oil analysis 427Z06.
Cyprs
Thanks for all the links on Nissan oil analysis 427Z06.
Cyprs
If you read the official SM/GF-4 development documentation, you'll find that the Japanese manufacturer's concerns were addressed when they developed the Sequence IIIG test. Funny how many remember the concerns during the initial stages of SM/GF-4 development, yet never read the part where their concerns were allayed.
Used Delo 400 during the ARX rinse phase in a '71 Mopar 340 over the summer, and it really seemed to like that oil. I have switched both my old Mopar V8s (a 340 and 440)to Rotella 5w40 this past year, and they both seem to run well with it, no long term reports. But I am hoping no more ARX treatments will be warranted. These cars were both acquired in the past three years with unknown histories, so they got ARX'd and will run Rotella 5w40 or something similar year round from here on out.
I can't imagine how you would have cat issues, sorry I can't be of much help. I just remember seeing some posts here over the past year or so that reported good results with the HDEO in cars, so decided to give it a shot myself. I plan to eventually migrate the newer vehicles to a 5w40 HDEO as their mileage gets up to somewhere around 100k.
I can't imagine how you would have cat issues, sorry I can't be of much help. I just remember seeing some posts here over the past year or so that reported good results with the HDEO in cars, so decided to give it a shot myself. I plan to eventually migrate the newer vehicles to a 5w40 HDEO as their mileage gets up to somewhere around 100k.
Intersting that the average OCI on those UOAs refernced by 427Z06 was 3,400 mi. I believe you would get similar results with the cheapest thing you could find at the Dollar store on those OCIs. One was listed as unknown oil brand and interval length, and another only 1,200 mi., which I of course did not count.
Exactly how does this information relate to using HDEO in a Nissan? Sorry, I'm drawing a blank here.
Exactly how does this information relate to using HDEO in a Nissan? Sorry, I'm drawing a blank here.
Detergents also appear to effect the "ZDDP" performance so not clear as to the benfits when not required.
Off topic
http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/GasTests/IIIFtest/default.htm
http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/GasTests/IIIGtest/default.htm
The valve wear sequence tests are different and so not readily comparable- that's where there is room for argument. The Sequence III is a high speed and temp simulation while the Seq. IV is low speed and T. SM reduced both allowable P and Seq. IV cam wear over SL, so the specs predict an SM product may offer better performance around town despite reduced P. The API categories after all are meant only as a one size fits all, fit for purpose minimum standard.
Off topic
http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/GasTests/IIIFtest/default.htm
http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/GasTests/IIIGtest/default.htm
The valve wear sequence tests are different and so not readily comparable- that's where there is room for argument. The Sequence III is a high speed and temp simulation while the Seq. IV is low speed and T. SM reduced both allowable P and Seq. IV cam wear over SL, so the specs predict an SM product may offer better performance around town despite reduced P. The API categories after all are meant only as a one size fits all, fit for purpose minimum standard.
If you read the test developement documentation instead of the above summary sheets, it should leave no doubt as to which one is tougher to pass.
The Sequence IVA test is identical for both SL and SM, however SM lowers the maximum allowable wear by 25%.
It may be the low bar used in the US, but it's fascinating to see Sequence IIIG test developement results where a SM/GF-4 5w20 oil produced less valvetrain wear than a 15w40 HDEO. In any event, what else is there, ACEA? Close scruntiny of those test procedures don't show great superiority over APIs when applied to the intended applications of SM/GF-4 oils.
427Z06, Glad to hear the SM oil cut mustard for the Japanese product requirements. Olympic posted in here within last couple years 40K km (24,000 miles) OCI's in a Toyota engine using 0-30 HDEO XD3 with amazing results on oil analysis. If this HDEO works 24,000 mile OCIs in a gasser Toyota it will work in my gasser engines too.
This XD3 0-30 I use is a group 1V POA base stock made by Mobil for Esso/Imperial, if I was to use another Group 1V POA basestock oil in SM grade only I would have to buy Mobil at $9.00 per litre rather than my XD3 for 4.50 litre. I service a few gassers with my XD3.
HDEOs are great oil for less money, the deals come from the bulk sales of products like XD3. No rancher or farmer is going to buy XD3 HDEO for 20+ litre OCs for $9.00 per litre, they will pay $4.50, I get in on this deal.
The choice is clear for me. I do have a hard working engine with the counter balance and dual steel chain.
If this XD3 was made only for automotive markets on dept store shelves without rural bulk price points, XD3 would sell for double placing it in Mobil price range. The specs on XD3 are amazing for this price point. XD3 0-30 has been termed a "sister" oil to German Castrol 0-30, we know what they charge for that.
If I knew how to link posts I would search Olympic's 24K mile OCI results for you 427Z06. My point is not just for sake of saving money, 24K OCI with excellent wear metal results says all I haved to hear on HDEOs use in gassers. Last I heard I think Olympic figured he could have pushed the miles further based on analysis. He also used this oil in a GM gasser mini van with great success on long OCIs.
I hope my post relates enough to the topic here.
Cyprs
This XD3 0-30 I use is a group 1V POA base stock made by Mobil for Esso/Imperial, if I was to use another Group 1V POA basestock oil in SM grade only I would have to buy Mobil at $9.00 per litre rather than my XD3 for 4.50 litre. I service a few gassers with my XD3.
HDEOs are great oil for less money, the deals come from the bulk sales of products like XD3. No rancher or farmer is going to buy XD3 HDEO for 20+ litre OCs for $9.00 per litre, they will pay $4.50, I get in on this deal.
The choice is clear for me. I do have a hard working engine with the counter balance and dual steel chain.
If this XD3 was made only for automotive markets on dept store shelves without rural bulk price points, XD3 would sell for double placing it in Mobil price range. The specs on XD3 are amazing for this price point. XD3 0-30 has been termed a "sister" oil to German Castrol 0-30, we know what they charge for that.
If I knew how to link posts I would search Olympic's 24K mile OCI results for you 427Z06. My point is not just for sake of saving money, 24K OCI with excellent wear metal results says all I haved to hear on HDEOs use in gassers. Last I heard I think Olympic figured he could have pushed the miles further based on analysis. He also used this oil in a GM gasser mini van with great success on long OCIs.
I hope my post relates enough to the topic here.
Cyprs
Cyprs, I agree with most of what you posted. XD-3 0w30 is great oil for a great price, and has been one of my favorites for years. I wish we could get it down here for a similar price.
However, it's just not necessary to show great UOAs in particular vehicles, is my point. Nissans in general may have favored higher viscosity oils in the past, but I believe now it just gets perpetuated as eternal truth without checking to see if things have changed over the years. That was the purpose of the sample list of UOAs I listed previously. Further, when the justification for any particular oil just doesn't meet with fact, I do my best to debunk these myths, since, after-all, isn't that what BITOG is about?
As an example, say one has a new Nissan and lives in the southern California and uses it for daily mild commutes of medium duration. Should they automatically look for a 12 cSt PAO HDEO for factory specified OCIs for the best UOAs? Or might there be other choices that are just as good?
However, it's just not necessary to show great UOAs in particular vehicles, is my point. Nissans in general may have favored higher viscosity oils in the past, but I believe now it just gets perpetuated as eternal truth without checking to see if things have changed over the years. That was the purpose of the sample list of UOAs I listed previously. Further, when the justification for any particular oil just doesn't meet with fact, I do my best to debunk these myths, since, after-all, isn't that what BITOG is about?
As an example, say one has a new Nissan and lives in the southern California and uses it for daily mild commutes of medium duration. Should they automatically look for a 12 cSt PAO HDEO for factory specified OCIs for the best UOAs? Or might there be other choices that are just as good?
I've seen and read Olympic's original posts. But let me caution anyone from extrapolating how an oil does in someone else's particular engine, particular environment, and running conditions and automatically assuming they'll achieve the same results in their engine, environment, and application. If one spends some time in the UOA section, you can find cases where the identical year/make/model vehicles with the identical engine, can turn out very different results even when an identical oil is used.
Whats the purpose of a good oil, to lubricate your engine to the max making it outlast its expected life, if a HDEO does that job well and the UOA shows minimal wear, thats all a person can ask for. So far there is a 5 year old Suzuki Esteem with 1.3L aluminum block engine which has been fed on HDEO like Delvac Super or Delo 400, most the later, the engine has 264000 miles on clock, very little oil consumption and guess what, no catalytic converter damage, passes emissions with flying colors. HDEO represent the best value in today's oil and as compared to stratospheric level pricing of synthetics, one can hardly use them. Tell you what, would rather use HDEO and change frequently than go through the questionable practice of extended OCI with synthetics when the verdict of extended OCI on synthetics is yet to be finalized.
Wow...sample size of one...very scientific.
Nope, I have many more but none with extended mileage like this, brand new Suzuki Swift with 26000Km, Honda Civic with 110,000 km, Ford Ikon with 52000 km and Hyundai Accent and Hyundai Sonata, both with around 70000km, if thats not good enough, let me check out with the Cheveron guys here, they will hook me up with other folks using Delo 400 in their gassers.
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