Hi,
wemay - The answer is no to both of your questions
wemay - The answer is no to both of your questions
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HDEO in PCMO. Any oil pump/circulation risks?
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Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
The recommended oil type and viscosity for your engine is a fully synthetic ILSAC GF-5 (ILSAC GF-4 or ACEA A5 in countries where ILSAC GF-5 not available) 5w30 with the starburst symbol. End of story. No need to fool around with HDEO, which doesn't meet your manuals' specs and also isn't optimized for modern gas engines.
That's stretching interpretation to the point of being disingenuous.
The spec is clearly SM, with a note that SL is appropriate if SM isn't available.
GFs are an extension of the rating system for EC means, not a base spec in the first instance.
The GF part is the note about better economy with thinner oils, with the disclaimer re thicker which "are" (their words) required in hotter weather.
So 10w30 SM is an oil specified for use in this engine by the OEM.
Energy conserving is a recommended option.
GF-5 starbust (resource conserving) vs. SN-only thing is not just about fuel economy. See the footnote *2 in the owners' manual posted above. It says "Along with other benefits, they contribute to fuel economy ..." One of these other benefits is less poisoning and longer life of the catalytic converter because of the 800 ppm max phosphorus limit. Another benefit in the new GF-5 category is the turbocharger protection that is absent in the SN-only version but something OP needs. There are other benefits as well.
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
The recommended oil type and viscosity for your engine is a fully synthetic ILSAC GF-5 (ILSAC GF-4 or ACEA A5 in countries where ILSAC GF-5 not available) 5w30 with the starburst symbol. End of story. No need to fool around with HDEO, which doesn't meet your manuals' specs and also isn't optimized for modern gas engines.
That's stretching interpretation to the point of being disingenuous.
The spec is clearly SM, with a note that SL is appropriate if SM isn't available.
GFs are an extension of the rating system for EC means, not a base spec in the first instance.
The GF part is the note about better economy with thinner oils, with the disclaimer re thicker which "are" (their words) required in hotter weather.
So 10w30 SM is an oil specified for use in this engine by the OEM.
Energy conserving is a recommended option.
GF-5 starbust (resource conserving) vs. SN-only thing is not just about fuel economy. See the footnote *2 in the owners' manual posted above. It says "Along with other benefits, they contribute to fuel economy ..." One of these other benefits is less poisoning and longer life of the catalytic converter because of the 800 ppm max phosphorus limit. Another benefit in the new GF-5 category is the turbocharger protection that is absent in the SN-only version but something OP needs. There are other benefits as well.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
I have asked a multitude of Hyundai representatives (Service Techs, Hyundai of America etc.), all stating that unequivocally, the ACEA designation is for European Hyundai where OCI recommendations are longer. It is not a requirement in NA. The absolute spec is as Shannow stated...
SM/GF-4/5or10w30, resource conserving. SL is also permitted. The starburst is a must too. The dealerships use conventional oil. No mention of syn anywhere.
Hyundai, Mobil 1 and Pennzoil have also advised that synthetic, although recommended for extended OCI, is not needed for this vehicle at anything less than 5K miles.
SM/GF-4/5or10w30, resource conserving. SL is also permitted. The starburst is a must too. The dealerships use conventional oil. No mention of syn anywhere.
Hyundai, Mobil 1 and Pennzoil have also advised that synthetic, although recommended for extended OCI, is not needed for this vehicle at anything less than 5K miles.
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
A better question: Why would you run HDEO, which is intended for 18-wheelers, in a brand-new Hyundai?
It's SM rated as well so not just for rigs. The Subaru guys have run HDEO for years, sighting how well they hold up to shear and keep things clean. I wouldnt run a strictly diesel oil.
Shell Rotella T6 and T5
Mobil 5W40
Chevron Delo
Seem to be favorites.
They are CJ-4/SM-rated but not optimized for gasoline engines. They won't keep your engine any cleaner than PCMO -- in fact they could make it dirtier. The soot dispersants in them could have negative effects in gasoline engines. Their higher ZDDP level and TBN are negated by the higher level of soot dispersants, which fight against both the ZDDP and TBN. Their viscosity is too thick for many gas engines. They may lack the sufficient amount of friction modifiers needed by gas engines.
If you want a maximally clean engine and maximum protection, use a synthetic PCMO with the recommended viscosity.
By the way, this topic has been extensively discussed on BITOG and you can search and read the many previous HDEO-in-gas-engine threads.
I have a couple of OCI's of Esso XD-3 0w30 which is sold up in Canada. It is a PAO syn HDMO with an SL rating.
Am I to believe that the 'soot dispersants' would have a negative effect if I ran this in my Cruze or Corolla? I remember that another BITOGer (Olympic, I think) ran this for very extended OCI's in his taxi's in Canada with excellent results.
What's your opinion?
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
A better question: Why would you run HDEO, which is intended for 18-wheelers, in a brand-new Hyundai?
It's SM rated as well so not just for rigs. The Subaru guys have run HDEO for years, sighting how well they hold up to shear and keep things clean. I wouldnt run a strictly diesel oil.
Shell Rotella T6 and T5
Mobil 5W40
Chevron Delo
Seem to be favorites.
They are CJ-4/SM-rated but not optimized for gasoline engines. They won't keep your engine any cleaner than PCMO -- in fact they could make it dirtier. The soot dispersants in them could have negative effects in gasoline engines. Their higher ZDDP level and TBN are negated by the higher level of soot dispersants, which fight against both the ZDDP and TBN. Their viscosity is too thick for many gas engines. They may lack the sufficient amount of friction modifiers needed by gas engines.
If you want a maximally clean engine and maximum protection, use a synthetic PCMO with the recommended viscosity.
By the way, this topic has been extensively discussed on BITOG and you can search and read the many previous HDEO-in-gas-engine threads.
I have a couple of OCI's of Esso XD-3 0w30 which is sold up in Canada. It is a PAO syn HDMO with an SL rating.
Am I to believe that the 'soot dispersants' would have a negative effect if I ran this in my Cruze or Corolla? I remember that another BITOGer (Olympic, I think) ran this for very extended OCI's in his taxi's in Canada with excellent results.
What's your opinion?
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
A better question: Why would you run HDEO, which is intended for 18-wheelers, in a brand-new Hyundai?
It's SM rated as well so not just for rigs. The Subaru guys have run HDEO for years, sighting how well they hold up to shear and keep things clean. I wouldnt run a strictly diesel oil.
Shell Rotella T6 and T5
Mobil 5W40
Chevron Delo
Seem to be favorites.
They are CJ-4/SM-rated but not optimized for gasoline engines. They won't keep your engine any cleaner than PCMO -- in fact they could make it dirtier. The soot dispersants in them could have negative effects in gasoline engines. Their higher ZDDP level and TBN are negated by the higher level of soot dispersants, which fight against both the ZDDP and TBN. Their viscosity is too thick for many gas engines. They may lack the sufficient amount of friction modifiers needed by gas engines.
If you want a maximally clean engine and maximum protection, use a synthetic PCMO with the recommended viscosity.
By the way, this topic has been extensively discussed on BITOG and you can search and read the many previous HDEO-in-gas-engine threads.
I have a couple of OCI's of Esso XD-3 0w30 which is sold up in Canada. It is a PAO syn HDMO with an SL rating.
Am I to believe that the 'soot dispersants' would have a negative effect if I ran this in my Cruze or Corolla? I remember that another BITOGer (Olympic, I think) ran this for very extended OCI's in his taxi's in Canada with excellent results.
What's your opinion?
It may be OK but is not optimal. I myself ran CJ-4 15w40 HDEO in my Corolla for 4+ years.
However, it sounds like you have a CI-4 oil that is loaded with phosphorus, which may ruin your catalytic converter, especially if your engine is burning oil.
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
A better question: Why would you run HDEO, which is intended for 18-wheelers, in a brand-new Hyundai?
It's SM rated as well so not just for rigs. The Subaru guys have run HDEO for years, sighting how well they hold up to shear and keep things clean. I wouldnt run a strictly diesel oil.
Shell Rotella T6 and T5
Mobil 5W40
Chevron Delo
Seem to be favorites.
They are CJ-4/SM-rated but not optimized for gasoline engines. They won't keep your engine any cleaner than PCMO -- in fact they could make it dirtier. The soot dispersants in them could have negative effects in gasoline engines. Their higher ZDDP level and TBN are negated by the higher level of soot dispersants, which fight against both the ZDDP and TBN. Their viscosity is too thick for many gas engines. They may lack the sufficient amount of friction modifiers needed by gas engines.
If you want a maximally clean engine and maximum protection, use a synthetic PCMO with the recommended viscosity.
By the way, this topic has been extensively discussed on BITOG and you can search and read the many previous HDEO-in-gas-engine threads.
I have a couple of OCI's of Esso XD-3 0w30 which is sold up in Canada. It is a PAO syn HDMO with an SL rating.
Am I to believe that the 'soot dispersants' would have a negative effect if I ran this in my Cruze or Corolla? I remember that another BITOGer (Olympic, I think) ran this for very extended OCI's in his taxi's in Canada with excellent results.
What's your opinion?
It may be OK but is not optimal. I myself ran CJ-4 15w40 HDEO in my Corolla for 4+ years.
However, it sounds like you have a CI-4 oil that is loaded with phosphorus, which may ruin your catalytic converter, especially if your engine is burning oil.
Ruin your cat in ... 240 k miles, instead of 250 k miles....?
Talk about scare tactics...
Talk about scare tactics...
Depends on how much P is in it. Unlike the 1200 ppm upper P limit in CJ-4, CI-4 has no P limit as far as I know. Also, I doubt it's a linear function. If it lasts 300,000 miles with 800 ppm P, that doesn't necessarily mean it will last 150,000 miles with 1600 ppm P.
According to some used oil analysis posted here, it has about 1400 ppm P. This is twice the typical P ppm in a GF-4 or GF-5 oil; so, it's quite hard to swallow for the catalytic converter.
According to some used oil analysis posted here, it has about 1400 ppm P. This is twice the typical P ppm in a GF-4 or GF-5 oil; so, it's quite hard to swallow for the catalytic converter.
Use this tool: Comparison Tool and enter API SN, ILSAC GF5, and Dalmier MB229.31(2012), a specification met by both Rotella T5 and Delo 10w30.
You can see the HDEO excels at all wear and deposit parameters, and has equal after treatment compatibility with GF-5. The only area it falls short on is fuel economy. Fully formulated HDEOs have superior wear protection not effected by the additional dispersants and they don't magically loose their wear protection when poured into a gasoline engine.
Ed
You can see the HDEO excels at all wear and deposit parameters, and has equal after treatment compatibility with GF-5. The only area it falls short on is fuel economy. Fully formulated HDEOs have superior wear protection not effected by the additional dispersants and they don't magically loose their wear protection when poured into a gasoline engine.
Ed
Originally Posted By: wemay
It's SM rated as well so not just for rigs. The Subaru guys have run HDEO for years, sighting how well they hold up to shear and keep things clean.
I wouldn't worry unless you were running something way too thick for ambient temperatures, and that's certainly not the case. As for HDEOs in gassers, check some of the threads in which Doug Hillary has participated. He's done it for a very long time, and even chimed in on this thread.
The only concern I'd have is to ensure the oil you choose meets your manual's recommendations. If a non-ILSAC 10w30 is okay, fine. If it isn't, I'd stay within specs, at least during warranty.
It's SM rated as well so not just for rigs. The Subaru guys have run HDEO for years, sighting how well they hold up to shear and keep things clean.
I wouldn't worry unless you were running something way too thick for ambient temperatures, and that's certainly not the case. As for HDEOs in gassers, check some of the threads in which Doug Hillary has participated. He's done it for a very long time, and even chimed in on this thread.
The only concern I'd have is to ensure the oil you choose meets your manual's recommendations. If a non-ILSAC 10w30 is okay, fine. If it isn't, I'd stay within specs, at least during warranty.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: wemay
It's SM rated as well so not just for rigs. The Subaru guys have run HDEO for years, sighting how well they hold up to shear and keep things clean.
I wouldn't worry unless you were running something way too thick for ambient temperatures, and that's certainly not the case. As for HDEOs in gassers, check some of the threads in which Doug Hillary has participated. He's done it for a very long time, and even chimed in on this thread.
The only concern I'd have is to ensure the oil you choose meets your manual's recommendations. If a non-ILSAC 10w30 is okay, fine. If it isn't, I'd stay within specs, at least during warranty.
Very true, no need to make an issue where none exists to begin with. I'm still contemplating sticking with Quaker State Conventional for short oci's. To be honest, it is the oil that has 'felt' the best and run the quietest. Even more so than Quaker State Ultimate Durability, go figure.
Originally Posted By: wemay
It's SM rated as well so not just for rigs. The Subaru guys have run HDEO for years, sighting how well they hold up to shear and keep things clean.
I wouldn't worry unless you were running something way too thick for ambient temperatures, and that's certainly not the case. As for HDEOs in gassers, check some of the threads in which Doug Hillary has participated. He's done it for a very long time, and even chimed in on this thread.
The only concern I'd have is to ensure the oil you choose meets your manual's recommendations. If a non-ILSAC 10w30 is okay, fine. If it isn't, I'd stay within specs, at least during warranty.
Very true, no need to make an issue where none exists to begin with. I'm still contemplating sticking with Quaker State Conventional for short oci's. To be honest, it is the oil that has 'felt' the best and run the quietest. Even more so than Quaker State Ultimate Durability, go figure.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
...and also runs great on Royal Purple API.
Originally Posted By: wemay
I'm still contemplating sticking with Quaker State Conventional for short oci's.
If you're looking at short OCIs, that would make perfect sense.
I'm still contemplating sticking with Quaker State Conventional for short oci's.
If you're looking at short OCIs, that would make perfect sense.
Originally Posted By: wemay
Very true, no need to make an issue where none exists to begin with. I'm still contemplating sticking with Quaker State Conventional for short oci's. To be honest, it is the oil that has 'felt' the best and run the quietest. Even more so than Quaker State Ultimate Durability, go figure.
Conventional oil usually has higher film strength (thicker oil film) than synthetic oil. This is due to a higher pressure - viscosity coefficient. That could explain quieter valvetrain with conventional oil.
However, Group V alkylated naphthalene (AN) synthetic has the highest film strength. It's likely that TGMO 0W-20 SN has some Group V AN in it (naphthalene smell).
Regardless, I would prefer a full synthetic for better overall performance and run a little longer OCIs as well.
Very true, no need to make an issue where none exists to begin with. I'm still contemplating sticking with Quaker State Conventional for short oci's. To be honest, it is the oil that has 'felt' the best and run the quietest. Even more so than Quaker State Ultimate Durability, go figure.
Conventional oil usually has higher film strength (thicker oil film) than synthetic oil. This is due to a higher pressure - viscosity coefficient. That could explain quieter valvetrain with conventional oil.
However, Group V alkylated naphthalene (AN) synthetic has the highest film strength. It's likely that TGMO 0W-20 SN has some Group V AN in it (naphthalene smell).
Regardless, I would prefer a full synthetic for better overall performance and run a little longer OCIs as well.
Putting HDEO in your car is like feeding your cat with dog food.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Putting HDEO in your car is like feeding your cat with dog food.
Haaahaahaaa, that is excellent and original, love it.
Putting HDEO in your car is like feeding your cat with dog food.
Haaahaahaaa, that is excellent and original, love it.
And when I dogsit, if my cat gets into the dog food, it sounds like he's eating jawbreakers. On the other hand, I can't tell the difference between PCMO and HDEO in my G.
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