HD Shotgun?

[Hohn]

My HD weapon is a .300 BLK SBR with a suppressor and a red dot. We can talk pros and cons of that set-up all day.

By my lights, that's as good as home defense gets. Low blast, acceptable recoil, speed of follow-up, effective shot placement, sufficient terminal ballistics, shoulder fired for best control.

Dang it, don't make me turn my last spare bare upper into a 300!

 

[Astro14]

By my lights, that's as good as home defense gets. Low blast, acceptable recoil, speed of follow-up, effective shot placement, sufficient terminal ballistics, shoulder fired for best control.

Dang it, don't make me turn my last spare bare upper into a 300!

One more pro: magazine capacity. Shouldn’t need it, but it is there.

The cons: expense and time. There are two tax stamps involved, so you’re not taking this home from your local gun store. There is some waiting involved.

Each of the components in this cost quite a bit. I got a screaming deal on the firearm, A Daniel Defense, but then got the red dot, a Leupold, closed emitter, which retailed for $950 (I paid a bit over $500 with the discount) and the suppressor, a Q titanium, was well over $1,000 with taxes and stamp. If you were to add everything up at retail, well, I’ve paid less for a used car at some points in my life.

Not cheap.

In the middle - it’s a long gun, but the SBR/suppressor overall length is about the same as a 16” barrel carbine and about the length of an HD shotgun. The light weight of the titanium suppressor and short overall length make it rather handy for use indoors, but it still requires some room to maneuver.

 

[Hohn]

One more pro: magazine capacity. Shouldn’t need it, but it is there.

The cons: expense and time. There are two tax stamps involved, so you’re not taking this home from your local gun store. There is some waiting involved.

Each of the components in this cost quite a bit. I got a screaming deal on the firearm, A Daniel Defense, but then got the red dot, a Leupold, closed emitter, which retailed for $950 (I paid a bit over $500 with the discount) and the suppressor, a Q titanium, was well over $1,000 with taxes and stamp. If you were to add everything up at retail, well, I’ve paid less for a used car at some points in my life.

Not cheap.

In the middle - it’s a long gun, but the SBR/suppressor overall length is about the same as a 16” barrel carbine and about the length of an HD shotgun. The light weight of the titanium suppressor and short overall length make it rather handy for use indoors, but it still requires some room to maneuver.

The can is nice, but for HD I could live without it.

SBR stamp time seems to be much shorter than can stamp times. I've seen SBRs turned in 8 weeks.

 

[oil pan 4]

#8 shot for self defense. Interesting proposition. I'm pretty sure that will turn the first couple inches of flesh to pulp, but have zero actual stopping power in a center of mass hit.

Not to mention the obvious problem that any load with enough spread to ensure you don't need to aim will also guarantee max collateral damage. I suppose the home defense hand grenade is an untapped market just waiting to be explored.

Lots of pictures on the internet of people who have been killed by close range shots using birdshot. Once you see them you can't unsee them.

 

[Astro14]

The can is nice, but for HD I could live without it.

SBR stamp time seems to be much shorter than can stamp times. I've seen SBRs turned in 8 weeks.

The can took 11 months in 2023. The SBR took five weeks in 2024.

It’s getting better.

I had a different can on there for a long time, a Dead Air Sandman. Nice set up, but the all stainless steel, full auto rated, suppressor was much more than the rifle needs.

I have saved that for other applications and got a dedicated titanium one for this. The 8 ounces or so of reduced muzzle weight makes a noticeable difference in handling.

There are two schools of thought on a suppressor for home defense applications.

The first, to which I subscribe, says that I want the reduced muzzle flash, and noise, with a suppressor, because I’m going to be shooting without hearing or eye protection.

But there is another school of thought, that says if I’m involved in a home defense situation, I want the rest of the bad guys to hear the “bang“, as a deterrent, in case there is more than one assailant.

Further, the use of an NFA item complicates the legal picture.

 

[oil pan 4]

10 pages, I can't believe no reccomendations for Mossberg Shockwave (Should I ever get the scratch together, I'm picking up a 590s (For mini-shells)

For now, I LOVE my KSG (Haters gonna hate, but easy to handle and with 22 +1 mini shells; you can surely make a stand)

My 590 absolutely will not run mini shells without modification and they don't appear to run standard shells with the mod in place.

 

[Hohn]

Lots of pictures on the internet of people who have been killed by close range shots using birdshot. Once you see them you can't unsee them.

I'm sure they are quite gruesome.
At very close (contact) range, any shotgun load acts like a solid slug. Incredibly effective.

But 30ft is well outside that range. And #8 will have have spread to well over 24" from a short barrel with no choke with light birdshot.

It's the difference between shooting a sandbag vs shooting sand. One loses energy very quickly and at distance becomes useless.

 

[Hohn]

There are two schools of thought on a suppressor for home defense applications.

The first, to which I subscribe, says that I want the reduced muzzle flash, and noise, with a suppressor, because I’m going to be shooting without hearing or eye protection.

But there is another school of thought, that says if I’m involved in a home defense situation, I want the rest of the bad guys to hear the “bang“, as a deterrent, in case there is more than one assailant.

Further, the use of an NFA item complicates the legal picture.

If only you could have it both ways. I know John Lovell advocates for the latter. I'm not so sure.

And there's the very real possibility you could have a very pricey NFA setup tied up for years in litigation and maybe never get it back. At which point you have to say either "oh well, it was insurance premium and my policy covered me" or "dang I wish I hadn't paid so much for something the courts system most likely will not return in excellent condition."

 

[oil pan 4]

I'm sure they are quite gruesome.
At very close (contact) range, any shotgun load acts like a solid slug. Incredibly effective.

But 30ft is well outside that range. And #8 will have have spread to well over 24" from a short barrel with no choke with light birdshot.

It's the difference between shooting a sandbag vs shooting sand. One loses energy very quickly and at distance becomes useless.

Yeah most are close, usually up to a 4 inch spread with smaller birdshot.
Almost every year some turkey hunter gets killed or seriously injuried, at a seemly improbable range with number 4 birdshot loaded turkey shells.

 

[Speedbird001]

My 590 absolutely will not run mini shells without modification and they don't appear to run standard shells with the mod in place.

Interesting... Web site and LGS site show 590"s" model is engineered for mini-shells... I'll have to check into that further when I'm ready to explore further. (I hope so, mini shells are fun, too bad they are expensive now )

 

[burbguy82]

He shoots at the face, from the hip, with a short barrel, secure in the knowledge that the pellets will hit his intended target, destroying teeth and eyeballs and winning the fight.

I encourage you to go back and read his posts.

I did not agree with them.

It is funny reading sometimes......you make it seem like he blasts fools daily......like that is the SOP or something. Very funny.

I for one think that because of legal reasons, birdshot is not a good idea. But yes it will do the job.

 

[burbguy82]

Interesting... Web site and LGS site show 590"s" model is engineered for mini-shells... I'll have to check into that further when I'm ready to explore further. (I hope so, mini shells are fun, too bad they are expensive now )

yeah, the shell elevator is different. They work well. If you already have one, RepSol makes a rubber thing that can make the minis work with a standard gun.

 

[burbguy82]

I don’t even own a shotgun

Still? Doesnt this conversation just make you want to go get one? When are you going to get one?

 

[Astro14]

Still? Doesnt this conversation just make you want to go get one? When are you going to get one?

You’re completely right - I’ve been hankering for one for a while - just haven’t gotten around to it.

 

[PontiacHO]

Disregard anything I’ve expressed as an opinion. As an experiment, take two sheets of gypsum board spaced approximately 4 inches apart and test fire double 00 buckshot vs 7 or 8 bird shot and evaluate the penetration of both. Do this at a distance similar from a point of entry to where your wife, child, or family member is sleeping etc. Consider which shot you personally would prefer flying around the inside of your dwelling. For the birdshot…..If the intruder has lost eyes and a great deal of their face, you’ve won.

 

[Astro14]

You make a good point about penetration.

Your aiming argument is where we stand apart.

 

[oil pan 4]

Interesting... Web site and LGS site show 590"s" model is engineered for mini-shells... I'll have to check into that further when I'm ready to explore further. (I hope so, mini shells are fun, too bad they are expensive now )

Mine is like 20 years old and completely fumbles when loaded with mini shells.
I'm sure they'll single feed fine.
Maybe they changed something on the newer ones to make them run minis reliability.

 

[johnmyster]

Mini shells? I went the opposite direction.

The 835 in my closet came from a pawn shop for $130. No rust. I stripped the wood and refinished. I never got around to making the barrel more HD friendly. If the world ends and all I can find is 3.5" shells, I'm covered. The turkey choke might be a bit excessive for HD use but I'll just make sure to aim. On second thought I think I put something looser in there but I still intend on aiming.

Once turkey season is over, cheap 835s and old Wingmaster 870s at the pawn shop. I'll take a blued gun with wood over a parkerized modern plastic gun. On the slim chance that it ever gets deployed for intended purpose, I'm not sure the upgrades will make much of a difference.

Chances are, I'll be grabbing a 1911 and a spare mag before I grab the 835 though.

 

[oil pan 4]

yeah, the shell elevator is different. They work well. If you already have one, RepSol makes a rubber thing that can make the minis work with a standard gun.

Yes when I looked into it that's exactly what mine needed to run mini shells. But then when that rubber thing is installed it looked like it wouldn't run standard shells.
I've got an old Winchester 1300 that runs mini shells like it was specifically designed for them and break action guns that run minis just fine.
Easy answer for me is just don't put minis in the mossy.

 

[burbguy82]

Yes when I looked into it that's exactly what mine needed to run mini shells. But then when that rubber thing is installed it looked like it wouldn't run standard shells.
I've got an old Winchester 1300 that runs mini shells like it was specifically designed for them and break action guns that run minis just fine.
Easy answer for me is just don't put minis in the mossy.

I agree. Minis have their place, and the Mossberg full size IMO is not one of them. Shockwave, sure, but the real gun, no not really. Some shotguns, as you said, do run them fine. It has to do with the elevator. If you look at a Remington or Winchester, whereas the shell elevator is solid and continuous, and the Mossberg is more skeletonized, you will see precisely why the Mossberg does not run minis very well. Not the Mossy 500s fault or even a downside to the gun really, just a new thing, incompatible with an old thing.