Has enthusiasm for electric cars waned?

2022, Tesla sold 1,313,851 vehicles globally, which is a 40% increase from 2021. In the US, Tesla sold 522,000 vehicles, which is a 72% increase from 2021.
2023 Q3, Tesla delivered 435,059 vehicles. This is shy of the record 466,140 vehicles in Q2.

Currently, Tesla's total installed manufacturing capacity is over 2.3M vehicles annually; existing factories are ramping. Monterrey and India(?) locations are next.

If Tesla hits the 1.8M target, that's nearly half a million more cars than last year. I doubt they can make it with the change over. But it will be close. Of course 2023 has already exceeded 2022 deliveries; Q4 is all growth.

Going forward, 2024 could be gangbusters with the Highland ramp from Fremont, Cybertruck and continued Y strength.
Later 2025 just might bring the "Model 2" from Austin and later Monterrey...

I am not sure "waning" is the word I would use.
 
Good conversation-
Tesla has been cutting prices by the boat loads the last year and there is still the $7,500 gift from my paycheck being given away.
I dont see them cutting prices or raising prices. I know this is a twist maybe on your words, they are not capturing market share, they are trying to prevent losing the huge amount of market share that they are. Meaning they have the feet slammed on the brakes all year.
Profit margins in the USA in the toilet and what is left is only because of the stupid $7,500 and still losing market share by the boat loads. Let us not forget that Tesla has shelved a massive factory in Mexico for now, most likely not forever but the reason given was the global outlook.

No way have the legacy called it quits. They will continue to gain market share. All the legacies are doing is adjusting their plans now that they see this EV thing is not in anyway attractive to the masses in the way EVERYONE on earth almost thought it would be.
So what have the legacies done? Pair down what they are going to offer. Only makes sense, yet still the big guys will have many times the models on the market then Tesla can dream of.

AS per my other post, we do agree on much but not everything for sure. That is good. I think it's only common sense the $7,500 being given on the showroom floor will breathe in some light for now and boast sales. I cant wait to see the day of no more rebate.
BTW - I have nothing against Tesla, I just dont like their cars, the looks remind me of cars decades ago, all the way back to the AMC Pacer as an extreme, to the Mazda RX7 (which was a great car) Anyway, I just see them as compact cars, not for me. Its the god like status in the media, (though that has turned now of everything Tesla) I have no problem with that I guess if I liked anything about the company.
I also do not like that the only profit they get in the USA (unlike the legacy makers)is from my paycheck.
I know what you mean, when I filed my taxes in 2022 and 2023, it asked me what your income and tax footprint was before they refunded me the $7500. They even used your screenname in the request and everything. Wild. I thought it depended on what I had paid in, but no, it was you all along bro, you the real MVP!
 
Yes I was shocked when they shut down the gas they did it to check the system for leaks. By me our issue was static pressure our basements filled with water from the bottom up.
Gotcha. I'm in Valley Stream, we were without power for close to two weeks IIRC, it sucked! I have customers in Island park that had fish swimming in their living rooms. Their power was all underground, The Yacht Club. In theory it was great, I don't think they calculated flooding into the mix when they put the power underground. They were out of their condos for months, some of the streets had to be torn up to fix the damage to the power.
 
I don't really follow the tax credit because I don't qualify. But I believe it will be halved starting next year.
Tesla's margins have been dropping but are still the envy of the industry. GM, VW, etc would kill for those margins.
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It's never going away until maybe 2032 or a new administration.

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after

You dont follow the tax credits but you follow the margins? You do know Tesla margin would go into the sewer without the tax credit and companies like GM would only feel a sting since their profits come from the ICE
I would think some investors would watch everything that affects margins, that in effect could affect stock price.
In Tesla's case they had to cut their profit margin more than once in the last year, while still being supported by a $7,500 credit. One would think if the credit goes away, they would have to slash their margins to almost zero to keep moving cars in the USA.

Of course hypothetical but certainly has some strong merit to at least affect margins further.
 
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It's never going away until maybe 2032 or a new administration.

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after

You dont follow the tax credits but you follow the margins? You do know Tesla margin would go into the sewer without the tax credit and companies like GM would only feel a sting since their profits come from the ICE
I was reading that Ford models may become ineligible across the board because the US-based battery company Ford is looking to build will be using licensed technology from CATL (Chinese company).

Gotta love protectionism.
 
3750 will be guaranteed for those that meet mfg location requirements
3750 will be guaranteed for those that meet battery material requirements
all customers who qualify basically anyone making less then 300k married or 150k single can make this pos, and must keep the vehicles 2 years if memory serves, there will an etf of the amount recieved

There are also brackets for the car msrp but its super accomodating.

Lease to buy loopholes will still exist from cursory understanding, but im very unclear about this. If this loophole closes, those EVs will be on firesales.
 
This is currently in affect not starting next year. Which maybe you meant but others may not know.
currently its not a pos credit, and you must have a fed tax burden minium to the credit you will be given. Next year i believe the tax burden is no longer needed if i understand correctly?
 
currently its not a pos credit, and you must have a fed tax burden minium to the credit you will be given. Next year i believe the tax burden is no longer needed if i understand correctly?
Also @JeffKeryk

I dont know (consult an accountant) but I believe Topic "A" Question #7 answers this. https://www.irs.gov/pub/taxpros/fs-2023-08.pdf

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In 2024 it will be a point of purchase credit of up to $7,500 if you are eligible starting in 2024, the tax credit will go to the dealer and can be used even as the down payment and other options.

Question #1 "A1"

"Q1. What is the transfer election? (added October 6, 2023)​

A1. The transfer election allows a taxpayer purchasing a new clean vehicle or previously-owned clean vehicle after December 31, 2023, to transfer the entirety of the allowable credit to an eligible entity (a registered dealer) in exchange for a financial benefit (i.e., reduced final cost) from the eligible entity equal to the amount of the credit, whether in cash, in the form of a partial payment, or down payment for the purchase of such vehicle. In short, the tax credit can be applied at the point of sale to reduce the cost of the purchase by the amount of the credit. Eligible taxpayers who purchase an eligible vehicle may choose to claim the tax credit on their return instead of transferring a new or previously-owned clean vehicle tax credit."

Source =
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/topic-...it-and-previously-owned-clean-vehicles-credit
 
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That was for 2023. But saw cnbc article that says regardless of tax liability. So everyone gets it, but incomes caps are still in place.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/10/750...-easier-to-get-in-2024-per-treasury-rule.html
Not everyone gets it yet unless there are updates to the story. At time of the story its a proposal. IF another taxpayer giveaway is coming the Tax Credit will become a EV Rebate if you didnt pay enough federal tax.

We will see, I cant find anything yet that makes this true and I am not sure if this could happen without an act of congress.
 
Not everyone gets it yet unless there are updates to the story. At time of the story its a proposal. IF another taxpayer giveaway is coming the Tax Credit will become a EV Rebate if you didnt pay enough federal tax.

We will see, I cant find anything yet that makes this true and I am not sure if this could happen without an act of congress.
i think we are in agreement that not everyone gets. the guidance talks about the income caps as i mentioned. 300k married/150k single and so on.

But everyone under the mgi stipulations gets it, and will self attest at the dealership to get it applied a pos. I dont think congress needs to do anything.
 
I think we're still in the "early adopter" phase of EVs. More power to you if you can deal with the costs, learning curve, inconvenience, etc. With any tech product I consider myself a "late adopter." For example, I did not buy a video tape player until it was clear VHS was the winner. I will never pre-order a cell phone or computer. I prefer to let others be the beta testers for EVs and then I will adopt when I feel I can purchase a product that is mainstream enough so I can count on my EV being good for at least 10 years or so. I don't want to worry about charging on trips. I don't want to have to deal with incompatible charging ports and standards. I don't want to spend a lot of money on something that may be obsoleted by some change in standards.
 
I think we're still in the "early adopter" phase of EVs. More power to you if you can deal with the costs, learning curve, inconvenience, etc. With any tech product I consider myself a "late adopter." For example, I did not buy a video tape player until it was clear VHS was the winner. I will never pre-order a cell phone or computer. I prefer to let others be the beta testers for EVs and then I will adopt when I feel I can purchase a product that is mainstream enough so I can count on my EV being good for at least 10 years or so. I don't want to worry about charging on trips. I don't want to have to deal with incompatible charging ports and standards. I don't want to spend a lot of money on something that may be obsoleted by some change in standards.

I also did this with Bluray vs HD-DVD!
 
i think we are in agreement that not everyone gets. the guidance talks about the income caps as i mentioned. 300k married/150k single and so on.

But everyone under the mgi stipulations gets it, and will self attest at the dealership to get it applied a pos. I dont think congress needs to do anything.
Very possible but so far as we are maybe 5 weeks from Jan there have been no change regarding being entitled to the fiull credit even if you don’t owe or pay the tax for the credit
I’m on the fence but wouldn’t be surprised at all
 
I think we're still in the "early adopter" phase of EVs. More power to you if you can deal with the costs, learning curve, inconvenience, etc. With any tech product I consider myself a "late adopter." For example, I did not buy a video tape player until it was clear VHS was the winner. I will never pre-order a cell phone or computer. I prefer to let others be the beta testers for EVs and then I will adopt when I feel I can purchase a product that is mainstream enough so I can count on my EV being good for at least 10 years or so. I don't want to worry about charging on trips. I don't want to have to deal with incompatible charging ports and standards. I don't want to spend a lot of money on something that may be obsoleted by some change in standards.
Theres alot of enticing deals by legacy automakers now but as you said its really a gamble to get into the fray now.
 
There are reliable, durable well proven EVs available right now that would not make anyone any sort of beta tester, and I don't intend this to be a rebuttal of AE's post.
That Tesla has been wildly successful is not open to debate.
That alone demonstrates that there is a significant market for EVs despite what the Luddites might like to profess.
Why some seem so personally threatened by the very existence of these vehicles as a choice in the market is a mystery to me.
I don't know how else one can view the need of some members to weigh in on every EV thread every time to express their disdain.
I would think that as enthusiasts we'd welcome additional choice in the market and not denigrate it ad naseum.
 
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