has anyone have their warranty work denied because they didn't use an OEM oil filter?

[Mike_dup1]

Honda is one SOB of a company when it comes to warranty.

I have a extended warranty on my 2001 ATV and here is a part of the owner requirements. btw-I has been a waste of money as nothing has gone wrong and it expires 4-30-2005.

btw - Using an oversize oil filter can be considered "improper maintenance"

Keep in mind this is an optional extended warranty, not the warranty that came with it. But it shows you the mind set of Honda and likely many of its dealers...

[ January 14, 2005, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: Mike ]

 

[Filter guy]

Let me walk you through a typical warranty from a filter manufacturers point of view.

A consumer has some engine damage. One of the potential sources is the oil filter. So the consumer can either go back to where he bought the filter and ask them to contact the filter company. Or you contact them yourself. A filter retrieval kit is sent and you return the filter.
( take all the pics you want if you feel it necessary or make some mark on the filter so you can identify it later)

The lab gets the filter, runs the tests, and you get a technical service report back.

At this point the filter company will ask for repair bills if they did find something wrong with the filter in order to settle the issue. They are sent to the insurance company and they send out the check.

If they found nothing wrong, they tell you that ( generally along with what tests they ran). They also inform you you have 60 days to request the filter back. (You can have an independant lab test the filter at your own expense.)

From there you take a copy of the technical service report to the OEM. You can tell them, they can eliminate the filter as a reason for the damage.

Should the OEM refuse you can sue them and use the Filter Manufacturer testing as your defense.

I have personally seen claims paid as high as $45,000. ( and that was for a diesel fuel filter*

) It is cheaper to pay a claim than contest something in court.

But as I was once told, if we can prove it wasn't the filters fault, we won't pay. If there is some gray area, pay it, as the court case isn't worth the hassle.


*..mis-manufactured filter can, leaked, caused a fuel spill. Driver continued down the road until someone got his attention and told him he was leaking fuel. The money was paid for the tow, draining of the fuel tank and fuel spill cleanup.

 

[opus1]

The only case I'm aware of this happening involve Dodge Ram trucks with the Cummins diesel engine. Apparently, there were cases where non-OEM filters were causing problems (Fram being one of them) and Dodge did come out and say that if you do not use a filter on their approved list, warranty claims would be denied.

Otherwise, I agree with what everyone else here has said, especially the part about keeping receipts.

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike:
Honda is one SOB of a company when it comes to warranty.

I have a extended warranty on my 2001 ATV and here is a part of the owner requirements. btw-I has been a waste of money as nothing has gone wrong and it expires 4-30-2005.

btw - Using an oversize oil filter can be considered "improper maintenance"

Keep in mind this is an optional extended warranty, not the warranty that came with it. But it shows you the mind set of Honda and likely many of its dealers...

---

Mike: An owner's manual provision is powerless to alter federal law. On the other hand, extended warrantys are usually not covered by the MMWA. I'm sure about that as to 3rd party wtys often sold by the dealers. A more interesting question is what happens if the dealer/mfr sells you a contract that purports to extend the original wty, versus adding new "coverage" after the original expires.

 

[Mike_dup1]

Laws are all well and good but not all companies and individuals obey the laws. Dealers (and companies) often intimidate customers. A lot of people will read something like this and follow it to the letter (not me btw).

I would say that if you have to ask this questions then maybe you best swallowing the manf and dealers maintenance schedules hook, line and sinker. Lots of people like to worry about these kinds of things.

 

[XS650]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eddie:
The law is in our favor to use other than OEM. I don't want to have my decision questioned IF something goes wrong so I use OEM till the waranty is up and keep my dated oil receipts.

---

On the original warranty, there isn't much risk in using good brand name aftermarket parts as long as you keep your receipts and use the recommended part.

For extended warranties, which are really service contracts, you are bound by the terms of the service contract you signed. If they say only use OEM parts, you are bound by that...you signed a legal contract with the service contract provider.

 

[Mike_dup1]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eddie:
The law is in our favor to use other than OEM. I don't want to have my decision questioned IF something goes wrong so I use OEM till the warranty is up and keep my dated oil receipts.

---

In the 40 yrs of owing new cars and trucks I have never kept a oil change receipts etc and have never experienced any engines or other problems with any of my GM vehicles to ever have to produce a receipt.

 

[Eddie]

The law is in our favor to use other than OEM. I don't want to have my decision questioned IF something goes wrong so I use OEM till the waranty is up and keep my dated oil receipts.

 

[vvk]

I used to buy aftermarket oil filters for my in-warranty vehicles before an incident that could happen to anyone. I put a perfectly good AC Delco oil filter on my almost new Subaru Impreza. About 5k miles later it leaked oil. Just by chance I changed gearbox oil the day before this happened. So, naturally, I thought it was my gearbox leaking. It started smoking from oil getting on hot exhaust on a busy highway. I pulled over and checked gearbox oil level. Then I had someone bring a proper wrench to tighten gearbox drain bolt. I tightened the bolt (which was fine, of course) and continues driving. Oil smoke was getting worse by the minute and I finally realized that my leak was not still getting worse. I arrived to work and looked under the car. I could see that the whole bottom of the car was covered in oil. I freaked out and called a tow truck. The car was towed to the closest Subaru dealer. They immediately saw that the aftermarket filter leaked oil. I was charged for the tow, for the diagnostic, for an oil change. If I had only been smarter and used a Subaru oil filter, everything would have been completely covered under warranty and I would have been about $100 richer. Plus, I simply got lucky that there was no further engine damage due to low oil pressure and driving 70 mph on the highway with a leaking oil filter... Bottom line, seeing how excellent Subaru filters are and that they have the proper 23 psi by-pass valves (aftermarket filters for Subarus all have 10-12 psi valves) -- and the price is low enough -- I cannot see ANY good reason what so ever to use aftermarket oil filters, especially while the car is covered under warranty. I think it's just stupid. My stupidity made me learn the hard way.

 

[ChrisW]

vvk, it's not as if an OEM subaru filter can't have a defect and fail either.

 

[Mike_dup1]

quote:

---

Main Counterfeit Parts


How to Spot a Fake...Or Ensure You Have a Genuine...



It isn't easy to spot a fake. That's because the really good counterfeit parts makers work long and hard to fool consumers. Here are a couple of tips to help you tell a phony from the genuine article:

If you're not installing the part yourself, ask the person who is if you can see the part and package.
Inspect the packaging. If it appears flimsy, lacks the name brand or logo, or has graphics or a name that is similar to, but not quite the same as, those you're used to seeing (i.e., AZDelco instead of ACDelco), it could be counterfeit. Counterfeiters often use colors, artwork and type fonts on their packaging that are similar to the original.
A competitive market drives variation in price among reputable manufacturers; however, extremely large differences in price should cause you to be suspicious.
Remember, because counterfeiters have become very sophisticated as technology has improved, a visual inspection of the product may not be enough to distinguish genuine parts from the fake. Insist on ACDelco parts from authorized dealers and retailers.

The best way to protect yourself? Buy your ACDelco parts from authorized dealers or retailers. Although they can occasionally get fooled too, they are much more likely to make sure you can exchange the phony for a legitimate part.

Commonly counterfeited parts

The most-common counterfeit parts are maintenance and high-volume items such as:
wheel covers
oil and air filters
shock absorbers
fan belts
disc brake pads and shoes
air conditioning compressors
starters
spark plugs
oxygen sensors
valves and valve lifters
distributor caps
gasoline filters and filter caps
rocker arms and camshafts
antifreeze/coolant and transmission fluids
bearings
alternators and generator

---

[ January 16, 2005, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: Mike ]

 

[vvk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ChrisW:
vvk, it's not as if an OEM subaru filter can't have a defect and fail either.

---

The point is that if an OEM filter fails, the damage is covered, the tow is covered and your warranty is intact.

 

[Geoff]

Manufacturers do spec flow rates (gallons per minute, etc), and bypass valve ratings (some psi differential). Best to buy a filter specific for your engine, particulary during warranty.

 

[goldwing]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Geoff:
Manufacturers do spec flow rates (gallons per minute, etc), and bypass valve ratings (some psi differential). Best to buy a filter specific for your engine, particulary during warranty.

---

I would like to use 15400-PCX-004 Toyo Roki in place of a Honeywell/Fram on my 1999 Acura TL. Do you know where a guy can find out the flow rates and By-Pass value requirements for these filters, and vehicles.

 

[Kestas]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike:
Commonly counterfeited parts

---

Add r12 refrigerant to the list. Some unscrupulous vendors take r134 refrigerant, relabel the cans, and sell them for a premium. This is commonly found on eBay. The tipoff is the top of the can and how it is tapped... r134 and r12 cans use different taps.

 

[John_E]

A tip for VW and Audi owners: be sure to keep ALL of your oil and filter receipts and a log book with the VIN at the top, listing each date, odometer reading, parts, and procedure. I recently had powertrain work done under warranty (leaky cam seals, evidently a VW pandemic) at a VW dealership, and they did not start work on the car until they had reviewed all of my maintenance records. I realize I can legally use non-OEM oil filters, but I have been buying the oversize VW 068-115-561B filter, which is now required per a TSB issued last August. If I walk into AutoZone or Napa, they will still try to sell me the much smaller Bosch 3421 or Napa Gold 1393, respectively, which are per the now-obsolete original spec. for the 1.8T engine. (That extra half-quart of oil is very helpful if you start with a 3.9-qt. sump and a turbocharger. Brilliant engineering!)

If you choose your own filters, stay current with your automaker's TSBs. My other car, a Dodge Stratus 2.4 DOHC, has a TSB to use the very SMALL K-car oil filter, since longer ones, such as the Napa 1393 or Bosch 3421 mentioned above, can scrape on the ground. With a 5-qt. sump and no turbocharger, I suppose the small filter is perfectly adequate, and I never had oil-related engine problems when I drove K-cars.

 

[Ken2]

1) Refer back to what "Filter Guy" said, "As long as you use the part number that the catalog calls out for based on the application." If you use a filter that the filter maker does not recommend for your engine you're on your own.

2) Magnuson-Moss does not relieve anyone of the responsibility of using parts that meet the maker's spec. You don't have to use their brand, but you must follow their spec. The specs for filters are not published in most cases. The aftermarket filter makers reverse engineer the OEM filter. Because of this, a failure caused by a filter is the responsibility of the aftermarket filter maker...if #1 above was followed.

3) A so-called "extended warranty" is legally not a warranty. Read your contract and you'll see it called a service plan or something similar. Magnuson-Moss does not relate to service plans. You either follow exactly what is laid out in the fine print in the contract or the "warranty" company does not have to pay if you have a claim. If the contract says that you have to use genuine parts, then that's what you agreed to do when you bought the contract. It is not a warranty.


Ken