Harley Behaviors

[boraticus]

Sounds like a good old fashioned throw down!

A heavily modified Harley vs. a stock Suzuki that cost one third the investment of the HD! Seems fair though. It's like bringing the worlds best, most expensive bow and arrow to a gun fight.

It's amazing what a Harley fanatic will do to prove that they're the best. Even if they never prove it. Ahhh, yeah....might just be the Koolaid talking.

 

[grampi]

cfromc

You're numbers just don't add up. You don't get those kinds of gains on a Harley for $5K. You've either got some people doin' you a whole lotta favors, or you're fudging the numbers (HP/torque or dollars) somewhere. BTW, by the time it gets warm enough in the midwest for us to square off my 109 will no longer be stock. Not to make you sick or anything, but I'll be spending less than $1K on mods and my 109 will produce better numbers than the ones you posted for your RK.

 

[TucsonDon]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
No disrespect TucsonDon, but if you look at these Harley bashing threads, there's a lot of humour being exchanged from both sides of the argument. It has to be entertaining to quite a few members. Just look at how many views and responses they get.

I've seen these Harley threads played out time and time again in other forums. Same arguments, same comments, same results:

• Taunting turns into personal attacks
• Moderators issue warnings
• Thread gets locked

This kind of stuff cheapens BITOG, which used to be all about intelligent discussions about oil.

Harley makes a perfectly good motorcycle. My neighbor has one and it's beautiful. It's a 1200 Sportster and the thing will move down the road no problem. A co-worker of mine, the smartest guy I've ever known, has two. He let me ride the Fatboy ... it was a fantastic rumbling machine. I have a Goldwing, which I treasure. To each their own, and beyond that ... peace be with you my friend.

In all these threads the issue is not really the machine, but the people who ride the machine. And because ultimately it's an issue of personality, the debate gets personal.

Y'all do whatever you want. I find the whole thing tiring.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: TucsonDon
Originally Posted By: boraticus
No disrespect TucsonDon, but if you look at these Harley bashing threads, there's a lot of humour being exchanged from both sides of the argument. It has to be entertaining to quite a few members. Just look at how many views and responses they get.

I've seen these Harley threads played out time and time again in other forums. Same arguments, same comments, same results:

• Taunting turns into personal attacks
• Moderators issue warnings
• Thread gets locked

This kind of stuff cheapens BITOG, which used to be all about intelligent discussions about oil.

Harley makes a perfectly good motorcycle. My neighbor has one and it's beautiful. It's a 1200 Sportster and the thing will move down the road no problem. A co-worker of mine, the smartest guy I've ever known, has two. He let me ride the Fatboy ... it was a fantastic rumbling machine. I have a Goldwing, which I treasure. To each their own, and beyond that ... peace be with you my friend.

In all these threads the issue is not really the machine, but the people who ride the machine. And because ultimately it's an issue of personality, the debate gets personal.

Y'all do whatever you want. I find the whole thing tiring.


Everything is relative. Ride a Harley, then immediately ride a big cubic inch metric v-twin or a Victory. I guarantee you'll never have any desire to get on another Harley. Sometimes it IS about the machine.

 

[Redline955]

If I wanted a V Twin cruiser, there is really no other choice. I'd buy a Harley Davidson. It's not about which is quickest, or fastest. The fake Harley's just don't have "It". But they try. I just saw an ad for Honda, and they have a bike that looks exactly like a Sportster. But it's not. If HD's were so bad, why would other's try to imitate them?

 

[bigbird_1]

Originally Posted By: Redline955
If HD's were so bad, why would other's try to imitate them?


Because the mindless public is convinced that driving a genuine HD will make them [keep it clean] The Japanese cruisers had to go to V Twin, air cooled, staggered firing order cranks so that they at least looked and sounded like an HD. They are much smoother, more reliable, and more powerful than any HD. So the Japanese had to copy and outdo Harley at being Harley.

 

[Johnny]

What's a Japanese copy worth when it's 10-years old? I know what the HD is worth, about 75-85% of its original purchase price.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: bigbird_1
Originally Posted By: Redline955
If HD's were so bad, why would other's try to imitate them?


Because the mindless public is convinced that driving a genuine HD will make them [keep it clean] The Japanese cruisers had to go to V Twin, air cooled, staggered firing order cranks so that they at least looked and sounded like an HD. They are much smoother, more reliable, and more powerful than any HD. So the Japanese had to copy and outdo Harley at being Harley.


I have had 2 metrics and 2 Harleys. All were nice bikes. But I am not afriad to say the Metrics are really much faster on average and do cost less. That said. My harley is more fun for me to ride. Harley bashing is pretty ridiculous IMO most of the things I say are said in jest. The people who own them who don't get into the image thing do so by choice. I don't do the bad guy biker thing but really enjoy my Harley. But I really don't care what others ride.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: bigbird_1
Originally Posted By: Redline955
If HD's were so bad, why would other's try to imitate them?


Because the mindless public is convinced that driving a genuine HD will make them [keep it clean] The Japanese cruisers had to go to V Twin, air cooled, staggered firing order cranks so that they at least looked and sounded like an HD. They are much smoother, more reliable, and more powerful than any HD. So the Japanese had to copy and outdo Harley at being Harley.
You can buy a Nissan sports car and no matter its performance it still will not be a Ferrari. A Chonda hopper is still a honda . If a Harley is what turns you on a Yamaha won't. I have owned Yamahas and Kawasakis . Harleys are cool.

 

[cfromc]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: cfromc
Grampi, I seem to remember you mentioning something about being near the Chicago area, perhaps you'd like to "step-up" to a friendly real-life head-to-head comparison???


I'd be glad to. Better bring along some tissues, you're gonna need 'em when you get dusted by a bike that cost 1/3 of what you've got into your RK.



What are we back in high school?


GMboy, I never challenged him to a fist-fight or anything of the sort. And I'm not trying to have a peeing contest either. We can go back-and-back on the 'net for years and nothing is really proven. I generally don't boast, I just take it to the streets so to speak. I've challenged grampi once before, which was unmet (regarding the origin of motorcycle parts). I wanted to see if he would accept this one. There would be a lot of details to work out, like where, when, 1/4 mile or top speed, etc.? I guarantee it will be close but that 109 will not walk away from my RK, despite being 14" bigger and (sarcasm on) so much more technically advanced. I just got tired of the back and forth and would much rather prove it "in real life".

Originally Posted By: grampi
cfromc

You're numbers just don't add up. You don't get those kinds of gains on a Harley for $5K. You've either got some people doin' you a whole lotta favors, or you're fudging the numbers (HP/torque or dollars) somewhere. BTW, by the time it gets warm enough in the midwest for us to square off my 109 will no longer be stock. Not to make you sick or anything, but I'll be spending less than $1K on mods and my 109 will produce better numbers than the ones you posted for your RK.


I've been the HP game for a long time, but more importantly, I do my homework before I buy. Each part was carefully selected to match the other parts. A lot of knowledge and research goes a long way to making a lot of power without taking out a second mortgage.

 

[ZGRider]

Originally Posted By: Johnny
What's a Japanese copy worth when it's 10-years old? I know what the HD is worth, about 75-85% of its original purchase price.


Something that you pay more for new should be worth more later, but have you tried to buy an original Honda CB-750? They are worth far more that a 1970s Sportster. Or how about a 1973 Kaw Z1? Or a Honda CBX? Or a Honda RC30? Or a Yamaha RG500? Any of these motorcycles are extremely sought after, but few are known to the Harley crowd. So if you think that old Japanese motorcycles are not valuable -- go on eBay and see what these bikes sell for compared to AMF-era Harleys (that were the epitome of junk motorcycles)

BTW, you better hope that the Harley sales "bubble" doesn't break, because the damand for them has been artificially propped up by marketing gimmicks and other means. Supply and demand will eventually catch up to all the millions of these bikes on the market. Also, don't discount changing consumer tastes -- Retro may not always be hip in the future. Status symbols have a habit of changing with the seasons.

 

[ZGRider]

Originally Posted By: cfromc
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: cfromc
Grampi, I seem to remember you mentioning something about being near the Chicago area, perhaps you'd like to "step-up" to a friendly real-life head-to-head comparison???


I'd be glad to. Better bring along some tissues, you're gonna need 'em when you get dusted by a bike that cost 1/3 of what you've got into your RK.



What are we back in high school?


GMboy, I never challenged him to a fist-fight or anything of the sort. And I'm not trying to have a peeing contest either. We can go back-and-back on the 'net for years and nothing is really proven. I generally don't boast, I just take it to the streets so to speak. I've challenged grampi once before, which was unmet (regarding the origin of motorcycle parts). I wanted to see if he would accept this one. There would be a lot of details to work out, like where, when, 1/4 mile or top speed, etc.? I guarantee it will be close but that 109 will not walk away from my RK, despite being 14" bigger and (sarcasm on) so much more technically advanced. I just got tired of the back and forth and would much rather prove it "in real life".

Originally Posted By: grampi
cfromc

You're numbers just don't add up. You don't get those kinds of gains on a Harley for $5K. You've either got some people doin' you a whole lotta favors, or you're fudging the numbers (HP/torque or dollars) somewhere. BTW, by the time it gets warm enough in the midwest for us to square off my 109 will no longer be stock. Not to make you sick or anything, but I'll be spending less than $1K on mods and my 109 will produce better numbers than the ones you posted for your RK.


I've been the HP game for a long time, but more importantly, I do my homework before I buy. Each part was carefully selected to match the other parts. A lot of knowledge and research goes a long way to making a lot of power without taking out a second mortgage.


Let's just add these numbers up, shall we?

1. Stock HD Road King -- $18,000 to $20,000 OK?
2. Boodles of Screamin Eagle hop-up parts $5000+ OK cfromc?
3. All the chrome do-dads like pipes, sissybars, grips, etc. that all HD riders buy ~$4000

Total: $29,000 conservatively (and I've seen many HD owners spend many times more)

How is this NOT a second mortgage?

Compared to a new (and faster) Suzuki M109 for $12,000 hmm.....?

Let's see $29,000 to be cool or $12,000 to get better performance? Huh?

More $$$$$ = cool Less $$ = more power, more convenience (shaft drive) and handling

BTW, cfromc -- how do you get all that massive horsepower (or is it horseposer?) to the ground with a 160 rear tire and wimpy belt drive? Or did you upgrade all that too for $5000?

People never tell the truth when it comes to how much they spend on their mechanical projects (I know)

 

[bigbird_1]

Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Retro may not always be hip in the future. Status symbols have a habit of changing with the seasons.


Wait until N. America catches up to Europe. You'll see the big cruisers almost disappear, to be replaced by hordes of scooters. Not the 49cc jobs, the bigger ones that can actually hold cargo, passengers, and cruise at 70 mph. It's started already with the Burgman, Majesty, and Silver Wing. Maybe HD will come out with a cruiser scooter and all the posers will have to get one.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Redline955
If I wanted a V Twin cruiser, there is really no other choice. I'd buy a Harley Davidson. It's not about which is quickest, or fastest. The fake Harley's just don't have "It". But they try. I just saw an ad for Honda, and they have a bike that looks exactly like a Sportster. But it's not. If HD's were so bad, why would other's try to imitate them?


If you could set aside your preconceived notions long enough to make a non-biased, subjective comparison you'd quickly learn the metrics aren't Harley copies at all. Some of them may look similar (though my 109 looks nothing like any Harley), but that's where the similarities end. They're actually very different machines. The metrics are more powerful, smoother, more comfortable, and they handle better. Sounds like your so called "copies" are much better than the originals.

 

[PT1]

i was looking at the 2007 Honda VTX 1800 leftovers. many dealers have them still new in the crates. They have a $1,000 rebate and some are oging as low as $8500. Pretty tempting. The F model in black is a decent looking bike.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Johnny
What's a Japanese copy worth when it's 10-years old? I know what the HD is worth, about 75-85% of its original purchase price.


In '96 I purchased an '89 Yamaha V-Max for $5K. I did nothing except ride the bike, then in '98 I sold it for $6K. While a 20% return on my initial investment was pretty good, I don't buy motorcycles as investments. If you do, you're not a very smart investor. How much a particular bike will be worth when it comes time to sell it plays no part whatsoever in my buying decisions.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: PT1
i was looking at the 2007 Honda VTX 1800 leftovers. many dealers have them still new in the crates. They have a $1,000 rebate and some are oging as low as $8500. Pretty tempting. The F model in black is a decent looking bike.


So what are you waiting for? Go get one already!

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: bigbird_1
Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Retro may not always be hip in the future. Status symbols have a habit of changing with the seasons.


Wait until N. America catches up to Europe. You'll see the big cruisers almost disappear, to be replaced by hordes of scooters. Not the 49cc jobs, the bigger ones that can actually hold cargo, passengers, and cruise at 70 mph. It's started already with the Burgman, Majesty, and Silver Wing. Maybe HD will come out with a cruiser scooter and all the posers will have to get one.


I've been looking for a good looking 250cc or so scooter for around town. They all look sooooo scootery...lol.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Johnny
What's a Japanese copy worth when it's 10-years old? I know what the HD is worth, about 75-85% of its original purchase price.


In '96 I purchased an '89 Yamaha V-Max for $5K. I did nothing except ride the bike, then in '98 I sold it for $6K. While a 20% return on my initial investment was pretty good, I don't buy motorcycles as investments. If you do, you're not a very smart investor. How much a particular bike will be worth when it comes time to sell it plays no part whatsoever in my buying decisions.


True: Motorcycles are never an asset...no toys are. Back in the 1990's when Harley had limited production capabilities they were seling for thousands over MSRP (really ridiculous) Now that has all changed and Harley flooded the market with bikes so their residual value is not what it used to be. Japanese bikes have never had high residual value or high MSRP in comparison so for a dollar to dollar comparison (MSRP to resale on each model or actual percentage of MSRP depreciation over time), Harley Davidson was once ahead of the metrics by as much as 35%. This has dropped to about 8-10% in todays market.
Harley depreciation does flatten out sooner and tends to remain static at a certain point when the bikes hit 5 years old where as the metrics keep falling and flatten out at a much later date. Translation: If you buy a bike and keep it 1-3 years best to get a metric. If you hold a bike 5 years or more a Harley is your best bet. 40-60 months of ownership is a toss up. Since I tend to keep my toys 10+ years...I'll hand onto my FXD.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: PT1
i was looking at the 2007 Honda VTX 1800 leftovers. many dealers have them still new in the crates. They have a $1,000 rebate and some are oging as low as $8500. Pretty tempting. The F model in black is a decent looking bike.


So what are you waiting for? Go get one already!


Mama says no 2 scoots in the garage.

My harley is paid for.