Habitual troller speaks

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Too many on this site get caught up in "anal retentive" side of things and forget that mostly, oil is oil!

Some of us here are engineers and scientists and think its interesting to study the subject. We want to put the best oil in our engines to preserve compression and possibly prevent a failure under extreme conditions. Some of us track our rides. Things happen. Engines overheat, over rev, have loss of pressure.

Its satisfying to think that you may have saved your engine by spending 10 bucks more on oil. Heck, that's just 2 beers...or whatever. Everyone wastes some money on something. Ive never done any drugs of any kind. I've saved a butload of money just by being a square.



LOL! If you had any idea you would know if brand A meets the same certs of brand B it offers the same protection, thus it meets the certification. Some "engineer".

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Oil pressure will be there at start, but not always the oil flow to the top end of the engine in extreme cold temps using thicker oil. Here is a video showing this, however this has been posted before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiQyR7PWII


those Esso videos show why we have 0W, 5W, and 10W (and 15W).

Being tested at -40C only the 0W SHOULD look like it works, the others are all out of their league.

Add 5C to the test cell, and the 5W would do exactly what the 0W does in the video...another 5C, and the 10W will look the same as the 0W at the coldest temperature.

At freezing, they would all look the same at the top end...even a 20W.

 

[tig1]

Shannow,
We've had this conversation before. My only point is that thicker oils, especially dino, simply will not flow to the top of the engine nearly as fast as thinner oils as the video showed. We here in North America experience vastly different temperatures through out the year. Here in Illinois, it may reach 105F or higher at times in the summer. The winter may see -5 -10F in winter, all the time using the same oil. When I lived in Maine my engines would hardly start(or turn over) with 10-40 in -20F temps. When I switched to 5-20 the engines cranked much faster and started easily. The video showed very well those conditions I experienced.

 

[Kiwi_ME]

But the low cranking speed will be due to piston drag in the cylinders due to the cold viscosity rather than any difficulty in pumping oil.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Kiwi_ME
But the low cranking speed will be due to piston drag in the cylinders due to the cold viscosity rather than any difficulty in pumping oil.


Did you watch the video I posted on page two of this thread?

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Kiwi_ME
But the low cranking speed will be due to piston drag in the cylinders due to the cold viscosity rather than any difficulty in pumping oil.


Did you watch the video I posted on page two of this thread?


That's a perfectly valid observation of the video.

The cranking speed of the engine slows with increasing CCS, and the 0W30 is rated to 6,200Cp max at -35C...the 10W30 is ranked to 7,000Cp max at -25C...it's going to be around 4 times thicker than the 0W30 at -35C, and cranking is therefore slower...

Much slower cranking equals no start, or hard start. When enough energy was put into the oil to thin it in the bearings/pistons, it sped up and started...

Note that the oil was flowing from the cam tower before the engine actually started...if you were able to count the number of Revolutions of the engine in both the 0W and 10W to oil flowing from the cam tower, the total revs would be similar...Positive Displacement pumps, with an oil that was pumpable.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Here is a video showing this, however this has been posted before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiQyR7PWII


This video of Mobil is highly misleading..................and very 'un-engineering'.
How I wish Mobil produce another exactly similar video , instead of testing at -40*C , now conduct tests at -55*C on similar oil types of 0Wxx, 5Wxx, 10Wxx and 15Wxx Mobil 1 top of the line engine oils and 75Wxx, 80Wxxx and 85Wxxx Mobil 1 top gear oils where pour points are above ,say -40/-45*C.



Originally Posted By: Shannow
there are (as per OVERKILL) MRV specifications at certain, cold temperatures



at -40*C is SAE 0Wxx;
at -35*C is SAE 5Wxx;
at -30*C is SAE 10Wxx;and
at -25*C is SAE 15Wxx
for all the engine oil samples being tested in the video ............whereby 10Wxx and 15Wxx are tested to fail in performance at -40*C ????????????????????????? .............. Anyone see the Conspiracy here ??

Any clue why is there no similar tests by Mobil at -55*C ...... for its PAO/esters top of the line 0Wxx engine oils and 75Wxx gear oils whose pour points are above say, -45*C ???????


How about testing the highly priced jet engine fuels in our gasoline/diesel engines ...... demonstrating jet fuels are Scammmmms............

 

[Kiwi_ME]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Kiwi_ME
But the low cranking speed will be due to piston drag in the cylinders due to the cold viscosity rather than any difficulty in pumping oil.


Did you watch the video I posted on page two of this thread?

Sure, and years ago as well. I don't think I missed anything relevant?

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: tig1
When I lived in Maine my engines would hardly start(or turn over) with 10-40 in -20F temps. When I switched to 5-20 the engines cranked much faster and started easily. The video showed very well those conditions I experienced.


Here's what you observed...its engine design specific to a degree.

 

[userfriendly]

Battery power diminishes in cold weather resulting in slower cranking.

I've tried to document fuel economy improvements with light engine oil, but it's hard to verify with one trip a tail wind and the next a head wind on the same route.

The best I can do is say that.... I believe the fuel economy is better some of the time with light engine oils.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: tig1
Oil pressure will be there at start, but not always the oil flow to the top end of the engine in extreme cold temps using thicker oil. Here is a video showing this, however this has been posted before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiQyR7PWII


those Esso videos show why we have 0W, 5W, and 10W (and 15W).

Being tested at -40C only the 0W SHOULD look like it works, the others are all out of their league.

Add 5C to the test cell, and the 5W would do exactly what the 0W does in the video...another 5C, and the 10W will look the same as the 0W at the coldest temperature.

At freezing, they would all look the same at the top end...even a 20W.


This is exactly why so many people in warmer climates tell drivers in New Hampshire and Minnesota to use 15W40 or whatever because it is fine. They think 0C is COLD.
I've had a car fail to start because of the cold, and that SUCKS. I do what I can to avoid that or having my car shake its booty when I want to start it at -30F. I think people just can't get it if they haven't experienced it.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: zeng
...
Any clue why is there no similar tests by Mobil at -55*C ...... for its PAO/esters top of the line 0Wxx engine oils and 75Wxx gear oils whose pour points are above say, -45*C ???????


How about testing the highly priced jet engine fuels in our gasoline/diesel engines ...... demonstrating jet fuels are Scammmmms............


-55C? -67F?
Even Mount Washington, a spot in New England known for extreme weather, has only hit -46C since they started keeping detailed records at its observatory. The lowest temp recorded in North America is -63C.
Even I think that's a little extreme...

 

[zeng]

You miss my point ...

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: tig1
We've had this conversation before. My only point is that thicker oils, especially dino, simply will not flow to the top of the engine nearly as fast as thinner oils as the video showed.

That was at -30, though, if I recall correctly, tig. Shannow has shown some of the papers that arose from those Esso tests, or something similar from Imperial Oil, and those verified that the oil flow at sensible temperatures is the same, regardless of the viscosity.

I still do agree that cranking speed can be different with different viscosities and with temperatures that are above the cold crank figures. Pumping a thicker oil is simply going to be harder then pumping the thinner oil. That won't change the flow once the engine is running, but you certainly can notice a difference starting with different grades, even at something like -10 C, if you compare something that's sufficiently different.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: zeng
You miss my point ...


Look at it the other way. The test shows the issue of using lubricants outside of their W-rated temperature. A 10w-xx is fine when used within the range it is spec'd for.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: zeng
You miss my point ...
Look at it the other way. The test shows the issue of using lubricants outside of their W-rated temperature. A 10w-xx is fine when used within the range it is spec'd for.



Agree ..

A while back ,another video demonstrating the 'goodness' of subzero temperature lubricants flowability similar as above .........
in an exchange of views on components wear protection endured by an owner ....
arguing for better fluid flowability at subzero temperature as pertinent ... against higher operating viscosity (at lubricant operating temperature ,not subzero temperature) ........

Hence my use of word 'misleading'in this thread ..... apologies to those who feel slighted ....

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4001528/Re:_Diaqueen_(now_MZ320345)_SA#Post4001528

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: zeng
You miss my point ...


Look at it the other way. The test shows the issue of using lubricants outside of their W-rated temperature. A 10w-xx is fine when used within the range it is spec'd for.


Has been MY point all along, but it keeps coming out in why a 0W "flows better" in Florida.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: zeng
You miss my point ...


Look at it the other way. The test shows the issue of using lubricants outside of their W-rated temperature. A 10w-xx is fine when used within the range it is spec'd for.


Has been MY point all along, but it keeps coming out in why a 0W "flows better" in Florida.


I know

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: john757
I visit this site occasionally since I consider it the premium oil site on the web. I have a 94 Bronco and a 06 PSD 6liter.
I usually run Mobil one 5w40 diesel oil in both vehicles. This winter I got lazy and have run M1 15w50 in the 5.8 Bronco. I let it warm up on cold days and notice no difference in the sound of the engine. I've had this truck for over 21 years now and have only used M1 oils, and from 5w30 to 15w50. No leaks, no tappet noise, nor lower end sound. The meter just turned over 353k. The only part changed internally on the engine was the timing chain at 175k. I suppose the point I'm making is, it really doesn't matter (at least in my opinion) what weight oil you use, as long as it's a good oil.

If the oil is too thin with respect to the spec, the piston oil nozzles may not have high enough pressure to squirt the oil all the way. In addition, oil-film thickness and strength may be insufficient at high-load and/or low-RPM conditions.