Is there an official website that discloses what group does a particular oil belong to? For example GC is group IV suposedly but how do we know that? Also other brands are hydrocracked thus, group III. I get this information from car forums but is there an official industry site that discloses this info?
Grouping of oil (I, II, III, IV, V)
- Thread starter bmwhitman
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No. It's a trade secret for the most part.
It's going to vary be weight as well, for example Mobil 1 10-30 (from armchair looking at the specs) could probably be made completely from group 3 stock and still meet it's performance objectives. A different grade of M1, like 0w-40 with it's higher VI really couldn't.
Then how does the most of the forum members know what grouping etc..?? Is is just speculation?
Originally Posted By: bmwhitman
Then how does the most of the forum members know what grouping etc..?? Is is just speculation?
Being a new member, it's easy to get hung up on the whole group thing. My advice would be to focus more on the actual specs that an oil meets rather than on group composition as there is more than one way to skin the cat. What matters is the end result.
Then how does the most of the forum members know what grouping etc..?? Is is just speculation?
Being a new member, it's easy to get hung up on the whole group thing. My advice would be to focus more on the actual specs that an oil meets rather than on group composition as there is more than one way to skin the cat. What matters is the end result.
The MSDS can point you in the right direction. I've had good success with just emailing the tech support guys at a given company.
But as others said, there's more to an oil than just the basestocks.
But as others said, there's more to an oil than just the basestocks.
I agree it's not the only factor to consider when buying oil but I was reading threads like GC 0w-30 is group IV while all other Castrol Syntec is Group III and therefore GC is better. I was considering on using Castrol Syntec 5w-40 but based on comments of group III is inferior to group IV, I was skeptical.
So it sounds like it's still a big mystery??
So it sounds like it's still a big mystery??
Originally Posted By: bmwhitman
I agree it's not the only factor to consider when buying oil but I was reading threads like GC 0w-30 is group IV while all other Castrol Syntec is Group III and therefore GC is better. I was considering on using Castrol Syntec 5w-40 but based on comments of group III is inferior to group IV, I was skeptical.
So it sounds like it's still a big mystery??
Do not think of it in terms of inferiority or superiority. Each has its pros and cons, and any good oil is using a combination of those.
A group V-heavy oil might contain group IV to combat seal swell and use some group III to help carry the additives, for example.
I agree it's not the only factor to consider when buying oil but I was reading threads like GC 0w-30 is group IV while all other Castrol Syntec is Group III and therefore GC is better. I was considering on using Castrol Syntec 5w-40 but based on comments of group III is inferior to group IV, I was skeptical.
So it sounds like it's still a big mystery??
Do not think of it in terms of inferiority or superiority. Each has its pros and cons, and any good oil is using a combination of those.
A group V-heavy oil might contain group IV to combat seal swell and use some group III to help carry the additives, for example.
Originally Posted By: bepperb
It's going to vary be weight as well, for example Mobil 1 10-30 (from armchair looking at the specs) could probably be made completely from group 3 stock and still meet it's performance objectives. A different grade of M1, like 0w-40 with it's higher VI really couldn't.
For the record, Mobil Super Synthetic is grp 3. While all M1 oils are a formulation of up to 15 differant base stocks.
It's going to vary be weight as well, for example Mobil 1 10-30 (from armchair looking at the specs) could probably be made completely from group 3 stock and still meet it's performance objectives. A different grade of M1, like 0w-40 with it's higher VI really couldn't.
For the record, Mobil Super Synthetic is grp 3. While all M1 oils are a formulation of up to 15 differant base stocks.
Originally Posted By: tig1
While all M1 oils are a formulation of up to 15 differant base stocks.
I believe they said up to 15 different "ingredients" which includes all of the additives. To my knowledge they use only four base oils in the M1 line; Group III+, PAO, AN, and POE.
Tom NJ
While all M1 oils are a formulation of up to 15 differant base stocks.
I believe they said up to 15 different "ingredients" which includes all of the additives. To my knowledge they use only four base oils in the M1 line; Group III+, PAO, AN, and POE.
Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: bmwhitman
I agree it's not the only factor to consider when buying oil but I was reading threads like GC 0w-30 is group IV while all other Castrol Syntec is Group III and therefore GC is better. I was considering on using Castrol Syntec 5w-40 but based on comments of group III is inferior to group IV, I was skeptical.
Again, look at the specs that GC meets. It meets some of the most stringent specs out there such as MB 229.5. That is what makes it a good oil, but only IF your engine mfg requires such specs.
If you have a Civic or a Corolla, I am not sure that GC is the best oil to use in it, despite GC meeting all those fancy specs. Do you see what I'm getting at? Start with your need and your specific application, then pick an oil that was designed for that application, not the other way around.
I agree it's not the only factor to consider when buying oil but I was reading threads like GC 0w-30 is group IV while all other Castrol Syntec is Group III and therefore GC is better. I was considering on using Castrol Syntec 5w-40 but based on comments of group III is inferior to group IV, I was skeptical.
Again, look at the specs that GC meets. It meets some of the most stringent specs out there such as MB 229.5. That is what makes it a good oil, but only IF your engine mfg requires such specs.
If you have a Civic or a Corolla, I am not sure that GC is the best oil to use in it, despite GC meeting all those fancy specs. Do you see what I'm getting at? Start with your need and your specific application, then pick an oil that was designed for that application, not the other way around.
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: tig1
While all M1 oils are a formulation of up to 15 differant base stocks.
I believe they said up to 15 different "ingredients" which includes all of the additives. To my knowledge they use only four base oils in the M1 line; Group III+, PAO, AN, and POE.
Tom NJ
I have often wondered what to call it. Compounds, base stocks, but ingredients sounds right. Thanks for that info. In the video "Not all synthetic oils are the same" they do state that M1 oils are made up of 15 differant base stocks and additives. Here is the link.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Videos/Videos.aspx
Originally Posted By: tig1
While all M1 oils are a formulation of up to 15 differant base stocks.
I believe they said up to 15 different "ingredients" which includes all of the additives. To my knowledge they use only four base oils in the M1 line; Group III+, PAO, AN, and POE.
Tom NJ
I have often wondered what to call it. Compounds, base stocks, but ingredients sounds right. Thanks for that info. In the video "Not all synthetic oils are the same" they do state that M1 oils are made up of 15 differant base stocks and additives. Here is the link.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Videos/Videos.aspx
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I was hung up on groups when I first posted.. now I don't care as long as the oil I choose meets my requirements (and price, lol)!
There can also be some changing of ingredients as availability and costs change. There are different quality Group III base oils, and the unofficial Group III+ is top of the food chain. If that becomes unavailable, a blender might use some cheap G-III plus some PAO to give the results they need. It's all about cost.
Originally Posted By: Ken2
It's all about cost.
Except when it comes to boutique stuff like Red Line, Motul, RLI, and arguably even stuff like Royal Purple.
It's all about cost.
Except when it comes to boutique stuff like Red Line, Motul, RLI, and arguably even stuff like Royal Purple.
From what I've learned here over the years, even those companies that tout the finest fully synthetic Group IV PAO oils will more than likely have a component of mineral based oil in their formulations, used as the carrier for the additive package. Otherwise the add pack would have a hard time, if not at all, mixing into the basestock.
I am sure the percentage is small, but it's still there, oweing to the "ingredients" each manufacturer has in their formulations.
I am sure the percentage is small, but it's still there, oweing to the "ingredients" each manufacturer has in their formulations.
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