Group 4 Oil Suggestions?

[yummy88]

This is what I have gathered. For Synthetic Oil, Group 4 is the way to go and Group 4 IS Synthetic Oil. GC 0w30 is Group 4 but it is no longer here with us. So I am looking for another Group 4 Oil? I am interested in decent prices $6 to $7 / quart and easy to find. How about Mobil 1 0W-40? Is that Group 4. Was just thinking that any oil with a 0 is group 4.

Penzoil Platinium seem good but then some say it is a Group 3. Have been reading about the new recommendations for OCI and I am think of dumping in a good Synthetic Group 4 Oil with a M1 Filter and go for the 7500 OCI.

I have the infamous Toyota V6 aka sludge monster but I figure that a Group 4 Oil should be able to withstand any breakdown in the planned 7500 OCI.

 

[sprintman]

Hope you have RX'd it and use maint dose whichever oil you select?

 

[yummy88]

Yes I have Auto Rx it. II am in the last 300 miles of Rinse phase.

That is why I am deciding between 3K OCI on Havoline Deposit Shield (dino oil) or a 7500 mile OCI on a Group 4 synthetic oil with maintenance dose.

Personally, i prefer to go the 7500 OCI provided I can find a decent priced Group 4 oil.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

The best medicine for sludge monsters is to change the oil often.... like 3K maximum with a name-brand dino.

 

[BillionPa]

not all 0 oils are G4, some are lower viscosity G3 with viscosity improvers and pour point depressants.

if you want something that is highly resistant to thermal breakdown, Redline is the gold standard. M1 0W40 is group4, Redline is group5.

i personally do not use M1 as it seems to be rather poor on the "bang for your buck" scale. I also do not run straight Redline as the ester content is too high (full ester base stock) and the ZDDP level is too high for my comfort (not so nice to the catalytic converters, which are VERY expensive on my car).

what i do is run some Redline in addition to group4 oil, which for my car i chose LubroMoly vollsynthase, due to many factors.

its BMW LL-98 specd, almost perfect level of additives, outrageously low level of volatility considering its viscostity index, low pour point, and the fact it uses group4 PAO base stock.

its also easy for me to order online, and at 21.1 quarts for $120, its not outrageously expensive.

there are many group4 oils out there, and a few group 4 oils. not all are made equal, and personally i dont think M1 is made well enough to put in my car (with my driving habits, otherwise it would be fine)

 

[TimVipond]

I take it you have one of these: Lexus/Toyota - 3.0L V-6 1997-2001 Lexus ES300,Toyota Camry, Toyota Avalon,Toyota Sienna;

To maintain your Toyota extended 8 year/unlimited mileage warranty, you need to follow the latest oil recommendations and change intervals from Toyota. I think they recommend synthetic only for no longer than 7500 miles/6 months. Contact Toyota to make sure. Seems like AMSOIL's XL group 3 synthetic line or their group 4 PAO line would work well for this and get their free parts and labor warranty. Kind of the belt and suspenders approach to sludge monsters. What is the year, model and engine displacement?

 

[Pablo]

Very smart. By all means use Amsoil ASL 5w30. Become a PC (Preferred customer) buy a case at a pop and either one or a case of EaO57 oil filters, and change the oil 7500 miles or 6 months. This is exactly what I'm doing with my MIL's 2000 Avalon V6.

 

[ewetho]

Quote:

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not all 0 oils are G4, some are lower viscosity G3 with viscosity improvers and pour point depressants.

if you want something that is highly resistant to thermal breakdown, Redline is the gold standard. M1 0W40 is group4, Redline is group5.

i personally do not use M1 as it seems to be rather poor on the "bang for your buck" scale. I also do not run straight Redline as the ester content is too high (full ester base stock) and the ZDDP level is too high for my comfort (not so nice to the catalytic converters, which are VERY expensive on my car).

what i do is run some Redline in addition to group4 oil, which for my car i chose LubroMoly vollsynthase, due to many factors.

its BMW LL-98 specd, almost perfect level of additives, outrageously low level of volatility considering its viscostity index, low pour point, and the fact it uses group4 PAO base stock.

its also easy for me to order online, and at 21.1 quarts for $120, its not outrageously expensive.

there are many group4 oils out there, and a few group 4 oils. not all are made equal, and personally i dont think M1 is made well enough to put in my car (with my driving habits, otherwise it would be fine)

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You may want to check out the thread on Mobil's new patent app doing exactly what you say blend low viscosity PAO with GrpIII to make 0W-XX oils.

 

[JAG]

Don't pick oils based on what you know or think the basestocks are. In the sludgmonster with 7500 mile OCI, you need a long drain oil. M1 0W-40, GC (if found), Amsoil ASL 5w30,...oils like that. MB 229.5 spec and VW 503.01 spec are super long drain oil specs that the first two oils meet. M1 0W-40 seems to have longer drain capability than GC in UOAs. No Redline and no Lubromoly (sorry BillionPA...LM Vollsynthese 0W-40 and 5W-40 did not keep my VW 1.8T engine clean over 5k mile OCIs).

 

[badtlc]

Royal Purple products are group IV. I'd recommend any of them you like. I will warn that the 5w30 tends to shear a bit but still protects as good as anything else.

 

[Merkava_4]

MaxLife full syn might be Group IV, not sure though.

 

[JAG]

I'm like a broken record since I'm not getting through to people: Group 4 content does NOT guarantee a top choice motor oil. Must dig deeper than that. I know, it's painful, but not doing so puts you in Busch League.

 

[B00SS]

Quote:

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I'm like a broken record since I'm not getting through to people: Group 4 content does NOT guarantee a top choice motor oil. Must dig deeper than that. I know, it's painful, but not doing so puts you in Busch League.

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Not many things can GUARANTEE a top quality oil. But the most common Group 4 oils seem to do VERY well. It is simple and easy to grasp for most. We have a good idea which oils fall into this category. So while not a guarantee, it does move your odds way up the scale. What other single thing (sorry, many folks like it simple) would you suggest as a guide? Of course there are many other things to consider, but the fact is many will pick a very few items that they are looking for. I still see many that pick a brand name as the sole input for which oil they choose. I'm not certain that labeling those that choose based on simple things as "Busch League" is helpful either. I've read enough of your posts to know that was from frustration more than an attack. Continue to educate. You won't reach everyone, but you won't alienate those that haven’t learned it all yet either.

 

[JAG]

Thanks BOOSS from listening. You are right that I did not mean Busch Leage as an attack. I have tried to come up with one simple way to pick a top choice oil, and I've failed because each method (brand, basestocks, UOAs, etc.) gives false positives and false negatives. Also the top choice is extremely application dependent.

The OP needs a great oil for a sludgemonster that will do well on 30 weight or thin 40 weight oils. I named 3 oils that deal well with that. I'm sure there are others as well but some oils that are good in general (and great in some other ways) are not ideal in this case. The qualities needed in a sludgemonster are the same as needed for long drains in typical engines.

 

[JAG]

The thread link below details some of the trials and tribulations I've gone through with several synthetics and then going back to an oil (M1 0W-40) I never thought I would that has given success in my application. It's cleaning the filth from past oils, bumped my gas mileage up again, and appears to be on the way to getting oil consumption back to next to nothing (on this second fill so far). The consumption started with Gold GC and with each successive oil choice, it continued. Gas mileage was not as good with GC as with M1 0W-40 either. I might try the HM M1 oils since they are touted as good for cleaning engines and they are indeed full of additives and have great viscometrics (particularly the M1 10w30 HM.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=0#Post844000

 

[Rico567]

I admit freely that I haven't the oil expertise of most people on this board. But I've been using Mobil 1 0W40 on two SAAB 9-5s since 2001, an '01 and an '04 wagon, 5K OCIs, SAAB filter. These cars, particularly the '01, were known as "sludgemonsters," for whatever reasons, but I have had NO trouble.
I also admit that I haven't done any UOAs, but the oil looks fine, engines have performed fine, nothing but oil pours out of the filter. In short, as far as I can tell, the M1 is working, doing what it's supposed to do. And that, I suppose, is my definition of a "top quality oil."

 

[dailydriver]

Quote:

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I also do not run straight Redline as the ester content is too high (full ester base stock)

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Have we ever really found out what is RL's ester content (% wise)?? I know Dave(?) at RL will claim "proprietary info", but has anyone (Terry, Bruce, etc.) ever been able to analyze it to determine the percentages of group 4/5 basestocks???
I would really like to know this. After speaking to Torco's owner/CEO/head tribologist, TOO MUCH ester (a la Motul 300V ?, etc.) does NOT seem like the way to go. You obviously feel the same, hence your blending of RL with grp. 4 LM Vollsynth.

 

[buster]

daily, boxcartommie said he found out that RL is 18% pao, which was the guess many on here had. You can make 100% ester based oil with the proper additive package, however it's costly and not needed for PCMO's.

 

[BillionPa]

Quote:

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Don't pick oils based on what you know or think the basestocks are. In the sludgmonster with 7500 mile OCI, you need a long drain oil. M1 0W-40, GC (if found), Amsoil ASL 5w30,...oils like that. MB 229.5 spec and VW 503.01 spec are super long drain oil specs that the first two oils meet. M1 0W-40 seems to have longer drain capability than GC in UOAs. No Redline and no Lubromoly (sorry BillionPA...LM Vollsynthese 0W-40 and 5W-40 did not keep my VW 1.8T engine clean over 5k mile OCIs).

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M1 0W40 is TBN of 12.6, LM is 9.4, Redline is 7... so yes indeed my mix has about 30% less drain capacity than M1 does. it also contains higher sulfated ash. what do you mean by didnt keep your engine clean, did you get sludge? the parts of my engine that have been bathed in LM oil from the start are #@$%! spotless! the parts from before the engine was rebuilt, running BMW oil (TBN 10.3), changed when the OLM said to, are still dark brown!

also GC has a TBN the same as the BMW oil.

 

[coffee]

Triple Se7en made a good point as it would be better to use a good dino oil at 3k intervals then try and figure out which Group 4 oil "might" work for you and still have to do 5k OCI's. Just doesn't seem worth it to me but best of luck on your decision.