Grease for needle bearings, very confused...

[Velcro13]

Brand new here but a long time lurker. I should be clear I am not trying to create another thread about what grease is best. No point in beating a dead horse. I'm just trying to understand what makes a good grease for my dirt bike swingarm needle bearings that have failed and am replacing. They were rusted and/or had wear scars from using belray waterproof grease... I've landed on Amsoil multi purpose, TRC Paragon 3000, or mystik high temp. What should I use? It looks like the Paragon 3000 might be stupid overkill but make a great grease for this application. Not happy at all with the performance of my current belray.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, Velcro

 

[ls1mike]

My kid has always used what I pack my wheeling bearings with. Lucas Red & Tacky. He has not had any issues with his.

 

[Trav]

Mobil 1 red is very good for needle bearings. The tub is a lot less messy and doesnt leak.

https://www.autozone.com/greases-an.../mobil-1-synthetic-grease-tub-16oz/934751_0_0

 

[RDMgr]

What is the group's opinions regarding Bel-Ray Waterproof Grease. Obviously the OP had a bad experience but what is the general experience?

 

[Astro14]

What is the group's opinions regarding Bel-Ray Waterproof Grease. Obviously the OP had a bad experience but what is the general experience?

Was the failure in this case a function of the performance of the grease?

Or did it have to do with not cleaning and re-greasing the needle bearings frequently enough?

 

[oil pan 4]

What grease to use?
Sounds like the main problem was not enough grease often enough.

 

[Velcro13]

Was the failure in this case a function of the performance of the grease?

Or did it have to do with not cleaning and re-greasing the needle bearings frequently enough?

The former. They are meant to be greased per manual every 7500 miles. I live in CO so not very wet, however, I take it upon myself to do it every year (3000 or so miles). Last time I opened them 2000 miles ago both internal spacers that ride on the needle bearings were all nice and shiny, very clean. Upon opening now, one linkage point was quite rusted (needle bearings and internal spacer that rides on it), and another well on its way. The seals are all in good condition and I don't know what else could wreak havoc like this. Haven't done any water crossings, mud riding, etc that would expose more wear to the linkages.

 

[Velcro13]

What grease to use?
Sounds like the main problem was not enough grease often enough.

Hmm, I would like to agree but I do it every 3000 miles or so. It's less than half of the recommended manual spec (7500mi). I pack it spin the bearings, repack, and then put more grease. It's enough that it oozes out of everything which is probably too much all things considered...

 

[ripcord]

Are these caged needle bearings or just end captured like in a universal joint? What type of grease does the manufacturer call for?

The one thing that comes to mind is that the BelRay grease is an Aluminum complex grease. Did you perhaps change greases at some point? Aluminum complex greases are incompatible with a lot of other types of greases such as polyurea based greases. If you mixed greases or even had grease residue left in the bearing, it can cause the new grease to degrade.

 

[Velcro13]

Are these caged needle bearings or just end captured like in a universal joint?

Unsure what the difference is but they look like this and are pressed into the swingarm. From here there is a couple types of seals. Either a rubber seal that lives inside the swingarm and is pressed in or a rubber cap that seals it off that goes ontop. Odd engineering.

 

[ripcord]

Unsure what the difference is but they look like this and are pressed into the swingarm. From here there is a couple types of seals. Either a rubber seal that lives inside the swingarm and is pressed in or a rubber cap that seals it off that goes ontop. Odd engineering.

View attachment 234913

Those are end captured like in an automotive style universal joint. NLGI #2 lithium complex grease is what is often used for these.

 

[oil pan 4]

Hmm, I would like to agree but I do it every 3000 miles or so. It's less than half of the recommended manual spec (7500mi). I pack it spin the bearings, repack, and then put more grease. It's enough that it oozes out of everything which is probably too much all things considered...

Is there any way to add a zerk and maybe giver a pump or 2 of grease every thousand or so miles?

 

[Velcro13]

Those are end captured like in an automotive style universal joint. NLGI #2 lithium complex grease is what is often used for these.

Ah good to hear. I think I am going to go ahead and get either this mystik jt6 or paragon3000 since it is a little thinner. I'll probably get the latter and own it for 10 years. Overkill for everything, sounds good to me.

Is there any way to add a zerk and maybe giver a pump or 2 of grease every thousand or so miles?

I thought about doing this, however the clearances are quite tight (rear wheel, ground, and this piece). It is a rather large area to fill with grease too but doable and probably a smart thing since it seems to suffer. I'll have to take a look and see if I can find a spot. It's quite expensive these needle bearings, haha.

 

[Big E]

I don't know what else could wreak havoc like this

Are you using a pressure washer?

 

[Velcro13]

Are you using a pressure washer?

Definitely not, haha. That thing stays far away from my motorcycle. Even with a hose on shower I try to avoid direct spray in linkage, wheel, and brakes.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The chevron engineers say you don’t want moly grease for needles because it will make them slide not roll.

I always thought that was why the tacky grease was out there, so it would stick and make them turn. But I have never been able to find confirmation of that either way.

 

[kballowe]

Belray waterproof grease is a decent grease for that application. Dirt bikes are hard on swingarm bearings, and from your description, there's some amount of moisture infiltration. Rough service.

Are these the original bearings ? If they're replacements, then bearing quality might be a question.

You could try a different grease, but I am not at all sure that it would be an improvement.

Next opinion, please.

P.S. I'd be interested to hear what you did, and how it worked for you.

 

[Velcro13]

Belray waterproof grease is a decent grease for that application. Dirt bikes are hard on swingarm bearings, and from your description, there's some amount of moisture infiltration. Rough service.

Are these the original bearings ? If they're replacements, then bearing quality might be a question.

You could try a different grease, but I am not at all sure that it would be an improvement.

Next opinion, please.

P.S. I'd be interested to hear what you did, and how it worked for you.

Hey, I would agree about belray but compare it to any of the three I mentioned above and it's not even close besides temperature, which if it's at 350f something's seriously amiss . As for bearings they are all OEM Japanese bearings. My replacement is a low mile swingarm lever with all of its bearings and internal spacers in great condition. I figure why not give it a shot with something like Paragon 3000.

 

[facility1]

TRC Paragon is a excellent grease, though pricy,,Mystik JT-6, 220 synthetics would be a great choice at a lower price and will also work, both are apparently lithium complex greases so compatibility no problem,however make sure when regreasing to properly clean out old and consider new seals too. there are many good general purpose greases to use if wanted that will work as ,Aluminium complex and Calcium based etc ,I can't see 350f temps in a swing arm, unless something is binding or too tight.?

 

[Trav]

The chevron engineers say you don’t want moly grease for needles because it will make them slide not roll.

I always thought that was why the tacky grease was out there, so it would stick and make them turn. But I have never been able to find confirmation of that either way.

From what the driveshaft shop tells me these small needle bearing like a not too heavy lithium based grease and no moly, they use Mobil 1 (red) exclusively. Swing arm bearings are very low rpm but high load, I have also had good results with Mobilux EP 1.

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