Gotta gas up..

[OVERKILL]

Maybe the ICE car makers should remove the MPG and Range readouts and just show what percentage the gas tank is filled (like percent battery charge on an EV). Then the driver can just do the math to figure out how far he can go, lol.

I like the idea of having both, which I thought was clear More information is better. Give me SOC and range. I can very easily determine how SOC is affected by driving style with those two metrics. An additional useful statistic would be, for those of us using metric, kWh/100km, or for the Americans, Miles per kWh. Trying to fudge up a blended statistic for charge rate based on range is like trying to gas up based on kilometres or miles, it's ridiculous.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I like the idea of having both, which I thought was clear More information is better. Give me SOC and range. I can very easily determine how SOC is affected by driving style with those two metrics. An additional useful statistic would be, for those of us using metric, kWh/100km, or for the Americans, Miles per kWh. Trying to fudge up a blended statistic for charge rate based on range is like trying to gas up based on kilometres or miles, it's ridiculous.

Not too ridiculous IMO. Really no different than pulling up to a gas pump with your ICE and knowing you typically get 25 MPG on average, and you know in your head that putting in 2 gallons would get you 50 miles +/- depending on driving conditions. Just like charging for example an EV for 2 hrs at "25 MPH" would get you 50 miles +/- based on driving conditions. The metric of EV charging at "MPH" is basically like doing that ICE example in your head, but instead Tesla (at least) gives that metric on a screen, and it also give a rough indication of the rate of battery charge going on. It's easy to comprehend knowing the context of the metric.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I like the idea of having both, which I thought was clear More information is better. Give me SOC and range. I can very easily determine how SOC is affected by driving style with those two metrics. An additional useful statistic would be, for those of us using metric, kWh/100km, or for the Americans, Miles per kWh. Trying to fudge up a blended statistic for charge rate based on range is like trying to gas up based on kilometres or miles, it's ridiculous.

I am confused. Are you talking about when you are charging or when you are driving?
If there is an additional parameter that makes sense, I will submit it as an update.
Tesla soliticits response from users.

 

[Cerjed]

Not too ridiculous IMO. Really no different than pulling up to a gas pump with your ICE and knowing you typically get 25 MPG on average, and you know in your head that putting in 2 gallons would get you 50 miles +/- depending on driving conditions. Just like charging for example an EV for 2 hrs at "25 MPH" would get you 50 miles +/- based on driving conditions. The metric of EV charging at "MPH" is basically like doing that ICE example in your head, but instead Tesla (at least) gives that metric on a screen, and it also give a rough indication of the rate of battery charge going on. It's easy to comprehend knowing the context of the metric.

I think the confusion is with the given name of the metric. Miles per hour has always been a measure of speed. Why make it similar to something that is already being used and everyone knows as something else? If I didn't know any better, looking at 25 MPH on an EV screen, I would think that the car will only be able to travel at a speed of 25 MPH once charging is complete. I know it is a very simple concept to understand once you take the time to know what it means but look at it this way.... if I say "Oh, yeah, I can charge it at 25 MPH" to someone at work asking me about my EV, won't he think that I can charge the car while traveling at 25 miles per hour?

 

[OVERKILL]

Not too ridiculous IMO. Really no different than pulling up to a gas pump with your ICE and knowing you typically get 25 MPG on average, and you know in your head that putting in 2 gallons would get you 50 miles +/- depending on driving conditions. Just like charging for example an EV for 2 hrs at "25 MPH" would get you 50 miles +/- based on driving conditions. The metric of EV charging at "MPH" is basically like doing that ICE example in your head, but instead Tesla (at least) gives that metric on a screen, and it also give a rough indication of the rate of battery charge going on. It's easy to comprehend knowing the context of the metric.

That's a lot of mental gymnastics. 2 gallon equivalent would be a quantity in kWh. The metric of EV charging in "mph" is like going to gas pump and filling up at "mph", it would just be a lot faster with gasoline. It's a perversion of proper units in an apparent effort to dumb things down because people aren't used to using kWh on a regular basis. Ultimately, you'll get billed for the kWh provided, so I really fail to see the value of this "unit of obfuscation".

 

[ZeeOSix]

I think the confusion is with the given name of the metric. Miles per hour has always been a measure of speed. Why make it similar to something that is already being used and everyone knows as something else?

It "EV gargon" ... so context matters. I'm sure there are many acronyms that use the letters "MPH" that would "confuse" people if they didn't know the context it's being used in.

If I didn't know any better, looking at 25 MPH on an EV screen, I would think that the car will only be able to travel at a speed of 25 MPH once charging is complete. I know it is a very simple concept to understand once you take the time to know what it means but look at it this way.... if I say "Oh, yeah, I can charge it at 25 MPH" to someone at work asking me about my EV, won't he think that I can charge the car while traveling at 25 miles per hour?

Of course nobody with any EV experience is going to be confused - but the way this thread has unfolded it's funny that such a simple concept can't be seen in it's context after dozen of posts explaining what it means. If someone said to an EV guy "Oh, yeah, I can charge it at 25 MPH" he would instantly think/say "Wow, your EV battery and charging performance sucks."

 

[OVERKILL]

I am confused. Are you talking about when you are charging or when you are driving?
If there is an additional parameter that makes sense, I will submit it as an update.
Tesla soliticits response from users.

That was just specifically in response to Zee's sarcasm about further dumbing down the information provided to the end user.

Personally, for charging, I'd like to see both SOC and kWh. For use it might be nice to not only have SOC and available range but also kWh/100Km or miles per kWh unless Tesla already shows that? It might be neat to have the option of displaying kWh adjacent to SOC on a scale similar to it, but I expect a lot of people wouldn't use it as it would be like litres or gallons on your gas gauge, almost TMI.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I think the confusion is with the given name of the metric. Miles per hour has always been a measure of speed. Why make it similar to something that is already being used and everyone knows as something else? If I didn't know any better, looking at 25 MPH on an EV screen, I would think that the car will only be able to travel at a speed of 25 MPH once charging is complete. I know it is a very simple concept to understand once you take the time to know what it means but look at it this way.... if I say "Oh, yeah, I can charge it at 25 MPH" to someone at work asking me about my EV, won't he think that I can charge the car while traveling at 25 miles per hour?

It's the rate of charge. It is not linear. It's just a number. For home charging, you won't even look at it. You plug in and go in the house and forget about it.
On a Supercharger, you see big numbers, which is fun, but basically the same as charging at home. It just takes less time.
So what good is the charging MPH gauge? Well, the only time I have really used it is discussing the car with non-owners.
"How fast does it charge?" "What's the difference between home and Supercharger?"
It is part of a much larger discussion that hopefull results in better understanding of the car.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Driving vs Charging. I will suggest a kWh. I take it that is a number like gallons?

 

[OVERKILL]

It's the rate of charge. It is not linear. It's just a number. For home charging, you won't even look at it. You plug in and go in the house and forget about it.
On a Supercharger, you see big numbers, which is fun, but basically the same as charging at home. It just takes less time.
So what good is the charging MPH gauge? Well, the only time I have really used it is discussing the car with non-owners.
"How fast does it charge?" "What's the difference between home and Supercharger?"
It is part of a much larger discussion that hopefull results in better understanding of the car.

The Audi app just showed SOC and time until full charge (don't mind the German):

However, I found this Audi advert from Australia and they seem to be in the same headspace as me, lol:

And this is a charger that shows the kind if information I'd expect:

It even goes over the top and shows charge rate (92kW) in addition to kWh delivered, cost and time.

 

[Cerjed]

It "EV gargon" ... so context matters. I'm sure there are many acronyms that use the letters "MPH" that would "confuse" people if they didn't know the context it's being used in.



Of course nobody with any EV experience is going to be confused - but the way this thread has unfolded it's funny that such a simple concept can't be seen in it's context after dozen of posts explaining what it means. If someone said to an EV guy "Oh, yeah, I can charge it at 25 MPH" he would instantly think/say "Wow, your EV charging performance sucks."

And there.. exactly.. lies what the problem is....not everybody is an "EV guy", not even on this forum. Just stressing the point that Overkill made..."perversion of proper units". I am not attacking anyone or saying anybody is wrong. I am just pointing out that there are always 2 sides to a story and one is not necessarily right and the other wrong. People have to be able to see it both ways, or have we lost that ability as a species?

That's it for me for this thread....stay safe everyone.....and enjoy the holidays.

 

[OVERKILL]

Driving vs Charging. I will suggest a kWh. I take it that is a number like gallons?
View attachment 37909View attachment 37910

Yep, not sure on your Model 3 what the battery capacity is, but on say a Model S 100D it is, as the name suggests, 100kWh. So "half a tank" would be 50kWh and adding 25kWh would bring you up to 3/4 SOC (3/4 of a tank). On your charge screen above there could be a kWh heading to show how many kWh were added during your charge time and it would count up as the vehicle charges, which would be the same as litres or gallons for your petrol/diesel vehicles.

 

[JeffKeryk]

And there.. exactly.. lies what the problem is....not everybody is an "EV guy", not even on this forum. Just stressing the point that Overkill made..."perversion of proper units". I am not attacking anyone or saying anybody is wrong. I am just pointing out that there are always 2 sides to a story and one is not necessarily right and the other wrong. People have to be able to see it both ways, or have we lost that ability as a species?

That's it for me for this thread....stay safe everyone.....and enjoy the holidays.

This is a key reason I tell people, "these cars are different".
I humbly ask people to take the cars on their own merits, there are similarities to ICE cars but try and think differently.
This way you are better prepared to make a good buying choice.
It is imperative to understand charging cuz there ain't no EV equivalent gas station on every other corner!
I also tell people, "these cars are not for everybody".

All good.

 

[Astro14]

I still want to hear more about the '68 Vette, Jeff! Enough about the Tesla...

 

[JeffKeryk]

Yep, not sure on your Model 3 what the battery capacity is, but on say a Model S 100D it is, as the name suggests, 100kWh. So "half a tank" would be 50kWh and adding 25kWh would bring you up to 3/4 SOC (3/4 of a tank). On your charge screen above there could be a kWh heading to show how many kWh were added during your charge time and it would count up as the vehicle charges, which would be the same as litres or gallons for your petrol/diesel vehicles.

OK, now we are getting somewhere.
My car, a Dec 2018 RWD Mid-Range has a 62 kWh battery (they stopped this configuration in March 2019 and started "Standard Range").
Stupid question: Do kWh units load in a linear fashion like a gas pump? (I don't believe so.)
Your pic showed 90 kWh and the gauge with quarter marks.
The Tesla displays the gauge differently, but is similar.

All you want is current kWh number in the battery and how many you have added, like on a gas pump (10 gallons, $30)?
Do you want rate of charge? (MPH on a Tesla)?

 

[ZeeOSix]

And there.. exactly.. lies what the problem is....not everybody is an "EV guy", not even on this forum. Just stressing the point that Overkill made..."perversion of proper units". I am not attacking anyone or saying anybody is wrong. I am just pointing out that there are always 2 sides to a story and one is not necessarily right and the other wrong. People have to be able to see it both ways, or have we lost that ability as a species?

That's it for me for this thread....stay safe everyone.....and enjoy the holidays.

I'm sure if someone got into EVs they would get the gargon used in no time ... "MPH" being one of them if they got a Tesla. There is lots of gargon used all over the world that people don't "get" until they understand the context of the gargon.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I still want to hear more about the '68 Vette, Jeff! Enough about the Tesla...

Late 1968 Corvette L36 Roadster. Plain Jane, AM/FM Stereo is the only option.
427/380, wide ratio 4 Speed Muncie transmission, 3:36 Posi Rear End.
Basically stock. My BIL bought a nasty 454 to put in and will detail the original 427. Mark's crazy.
Carb by Lars Grimsrud. The Master.
The paint is flawless. Took more than 4 months to finish. And a lotta money. I hate painters. Plus I wanted that beautiful '69 Cortez Silver, but wifey and the painter told me "this car has to be black".

These are the stock 15x7 Ralleyes. I prefer the 16x8 Chrome Ralleyes with the fat and low BFG Comp TAs 255/50/16. Sits lower and makes more noise when you give it throttle to torque sideways.
'68 is the last year of the key on the dash.

 

[Astro14]

Simply awesome! Thanks!

Now back to our charging discussion...

 

[OVERKILL]

OK, now we are getting somewhere.
My car, a Dec 2018 RWD Mid-Range has a 62 kWh battery (they stopped this configuration in March 2019 and started "Standard Range").
Stupid question: Do kWh units load in a linear fashion like a gas pump? (I don't believe so.)
Your pic showed 90 kWh and the gauge with quarter marks.
The Tesla displays the gauge differently, but is similar.

All you want is current kWh number in the battery and how many you have added, like on a gas pump (10 gallons, $30)?
Do you want rate of charge? (MPH on a Tesla)?

In the follow up I showed the one charger did show charge rate in kW, which would vary depending on the SOC, I believe it has to slow as the battery gets close to full. It also showed kWh added, time, and price. Very similar to a gas pump. That's what I'd expect.

 

[JeffKeryk]

In the follow up I showed the one charger did show charge rate in kW, which would vary depending on the SOC, I believe it has to slow as the battery gets close to full. It also showed kWh added, time, and price. Very similar to a gas pump. That's what I'd expect.

Ok. In a Tesla, everything is configurable. So MPH could be changed to kWh per hour?
Then show kWh absolute number added.

I imagine that would be really simple to do on a Tesla. It's just a software modification.
Maybe I will go to a Supercharger and fill up. I believe billing is by kWh quantity delivered, so it must be listed on your credit card statement.