Good Read On The 9 MM vs. .40 S&W
- Thread starter billt460
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I read that just yesterday. Good read that challenges a lot of old school thinking. The comments were interesting too.
A salesman at a very high gun shop (Google Vances) told me the popularity of the .40 has dwindled down significantly. They have .40 cal police trades pistols
and even Winchester .40 cal Ranger T series JHP police trade ammo in stock.
and even Winchester .40 cal Ranger T series JHP police trade ammo in stock.
Meant to say a very popular gun shop.
.40 vs. 9 is a complete YMMV situation. I think calling one over the other for supremacy is a little asinine.
.40 or 9, neither shot is going to be your Hollywood Movie "guaranteed one shot and he drops" round.
There has been documentation of 9mm bouncing off of everything from denim jackets to car windshields, if you're willing to listen to those police reports.
Short of changing standard issue firearm to a bear or elephant gun, I expect to eventually see this argument being re-hashed again.
My opinion is that a lot of individuals, LEO or not, are sorely in need of training as to the realistic expectation of small arms. Never been "one man army guns" and probably won't be any time soon.
Human beings have survived large caliber head shots, severed limbs, explosions, and even nuclear attacks. Not all humans blow over like an unhinged screen door.
.40 or 9, neither shot is going to be your Hollywood Movie "guaranteed one shot and he drops" round.
There has been documentation of 9mm bouncing off of everything from denim jackets to car windshields, if you're willing to listen to those police reports.
Short of changing standard issue firearm to a bear or elephant gun, I expect to eventually see this argument being re-hashed again.
My opinion is that a lot of individuals, LEO or not, are sorely in need of training as to the realistic expectation of small arms. Never been "one man army guns" and probably won't be any time soon.
Human beings have survived large caliber head shots, severed limbs, explosions, and even nuclear attacks. Not all humans blow over like an unhinged screen door.
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
A salesman at a very high gun shop (Google Vances) told me the popularity of the .40 has dwindled down significantly. They have .40 cal police trades pistols and even Winchester .40 cal Ranger T series JHP police trade ammo in stock.
The .40 is dying. And has been for several years now. I've seen high end .40's languishing in gun shops for months. While the same gun in a 9 MM is gone within days. 9 MM ammo outsells .40 by the truckload. A lot of shooters, along with people in law enforcement, are finally realizing there just isn't any advantage to it. Especially since 9 MM ammunition has improved so much. About all you're getting with the .40 is more wear and recoil, and higher ammunition cost.
A salesman at a very high gun shop (Google Vances) told me the popularity of the .40 has dwindled down significantly. They have .40 cal police trades pistols and even Winchester .40 cal Ranger T series JHP police trade ammo in stock.
The .40 is dying. And has been for several years now. I've seen high end .40's languishing in gun shops for months. While the same gun in a 9 MM is gone within days. 9 MM ammo outsells .40 by the truckload. A lot of shooters, along with people in law enforcement, are finally realizing there just isn't any advantage to it. Especially since 9 MM ammunition has improved so much. About all you're getting with the .40 is more wear and recoil, and higher ammunition cost.
Doesn't apply to me. I shoot a .380
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Do we really need another "tastes great!!" "less filling!!" debate about 9 vs 40? Oh well why not. My brother is a career Paramedic on a dept that serves the southeast metro area of a large urban zone. He's seen treated and transported a lot of gunshot victims in his 21 yrs as a Firefighter. He CCW carries a S&W Shield in .40 and says he chose that instead of 9mm after seeing the difference in wound trauma in the field. The law enforcement agency in the area carries .40's and he told me of the results of a couple officer involved's where the suspect was shot w/ agency .40, vs. citizen on citizen 9mm wounds (using the term citizen loosely...)
But I know how this will go. Go ahead and let it fly. It's probably true that a JHP .40 will do more trauma than a FMJ 9 and a JHP 9 more than a FMJ .40, and I don't think he got to have ammo discussions at the scene, in the ambulance, or the ER. Lot of the 9mm shootings were gang banger shootings and who knows what ammo they shoot.
But I know how this will go. Go ahead and let it fly. It's probably true that a JHP .40 will do more trauma than a FMJ 9 and a JHP 9 more than a FMJ .40, and I don't think he got to have ammo discussions at the scene, in the ambulance, or the ER. Lot of the 9mm shootings were gang banger shootings and who knows what ammo they shoot.
JHZR2
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The article gives bullet size, but not mass.
1/2 m v^2, right?
A larger diameter bullet means a bigger case - more propellant, notionally more velocity and possibly a higher mass.
Not saying that's definite, just that I'd think they would address that as it affects energy imparted on a body.
I'd think that all the "advancements" claimed that have moved 9mm ahead would do the same for .40/10mm.
So I'd think marginally more mass would make benefit for moving a body, even if the holes aren't well placed...
1/2 m v^2, right?
A larger diameter bullet means a bigger case - more propellant, notionally more velocity and possibly a higher mass.
Not saying that's definite, just that I'd think they would address that as it affects energy imparted on a body.
I'd think that all the "advancements" claimed that have moved 9mm ahead would do the same for .40/10mm.
So I'd think marginally more mass would make benefit for moving a body, even if the holes aren't well placed...
Doesnt apply to you? You bought a round with half the energy of 9mm and the price that matches a 40SW lol.
Some 9mm has more penetration than would be necessary.Like +P+ 9mm in Glock. I think the europellet or 9 Luger has received the most love and attention in last 10 years. Under 10.00 for fmj brass is cheap too.
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
.40 S&W was a compromise from the very start
Yes women in the FBI whined they couldn't handle the 10MM. So they stepped it back to 40 S&W they must have kept whining!
.40 S&W was a compromise from the very start
Yes women in the FBI whined they couldn't handle the 10MM. So they stepped it back to 40 S&W they must have kept whining!
.357 SIG for me. Love that round.
Also enjoy shooting .40 S&W through my Glock 32. Very accurate with my aftermarket Lone Wolf barrel. I’ve put 5 rounds into less than 1”, off-hand, standing, with cheap range ammo (well, the Federal Al case 180g, which is actually good quality, even though it’s inexpensive at $15/box), from 50 feet.
Also enjoy shooting .40 S&W through my Glock 32. Very accurate with my aftermarket Lone Wolf barrel. I’ve put 5 rounds into less than 1”, off-hand, standing, with cheap range ammo (well, the Federal Al case 180g, which is actually good quality, even though it’s inexpensive at $15/box), from 50 feet.
There is not a whole lot of difference between the 9mm and .40. The .40 is more powerful, but not by much. They are both handgun rounds. What really is driving the FBI is a personnel issue. The lesser recoil of the 9mm, is much more important than the small increase in power from the .40.
The Underwood ammo I carry:
9mm +P+ 124 gr Gold Dot- 1300 fps, 465 ME
.40 165 gr Gold Dot- 1200 fps, 528 ME
Doesn't bother me carrying either. But if I had to pick, it would be the .40 load.
The Underwood ammo I carry:
9mm +P+ 124 gr Gold Dot- 1300 fps, 465 ME
.40 165 gr Gold Dot- 1200 fps, 528 ME
Doesn't bother me carrying either. But if I had to pick, it would be the .40 load.
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Now on the other hand, I firmly believe a mid-torso hit with one of these would be a little more effective:
https://underwoodammo.com/product/rifle-ammo/308-winchester-match-grade-152-grain-controlled-chaos/
https://underwoodammo.com/product/rifle-ammo/308-winchester-match-grade-152-grain-controlled-chaos/
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