Good aftermarket speakers - 6.5 inch using factory headunit?

[researcher]

Update and a couple more questions...

I decided on this pioneer amp to drive the 12" pioneer champion series subwoofer. It's a 500 watt rms 1000 watt peak at 4 ohm. I am trying to stay with one brand when it comes to the subwoofer to hopefully get better characteristics. My thinking behind getting this pioneer amp is then use the JL audio 360/4 amp to power the infinity speakers in car.
This pioneer amp is refreshingly simple basically gain and fq adjustments... and a wired bass control. and that it. It fits the bill nicely as it DID add more punch at all volumes, and comes in STRONG on the upper end on the scale. I bought it new but for 45% off the mrsp so it was differently worth it.


But now the questions!.
How would I go about using the JL audio 360/4 amp to power the in car infinity speakers?
Is this where a distribution block comes in the play for the power and grounds of additional amp?
Would I use the "output" on the pioneer amp to send signal to the JL audio amp?

How would you go about installing and hooking up this JL audio amp?
Thanks!

ok now you've crossed into needing a bigger alternator, the 360w JL could just keep up at idle, the cap was a band-aid fix just to "keep up".. If you install this pioneer you will definitely need to upgrade the alternator. Not to mention you're also wanting to power the JL audio amp for the 4 speakers (I think it's 4) inside the cabin.


@meep is getting into the "serious" part of car audio, not playing around at all! I like it! But @1 SX how much $$$ are you wanting to put into this? That's going to be the big question..

Usually you can use speaker (wire) level outputs from the radio into the amp, but it just gets too messy and I mean that the signal isn't that clean. You're ok right now with tapping into it for the sub, but for the regular speakers it's not that great. Meep is right, you're going to need the crossovers to bring the speaker level inputs into the line-level (think RCA plugs) inputs. Plus a parametric EQ is very nice, it allows you to set the frequency mid point you want to adjust, instead of a fixed frequency, lots of fine tuning adjustments, and yes I've been there with fixed frequencies, it's limiting, sometimes you get lucky with the pre-sets.. and other times you don't.

You're definitely jumping into the deep waters of car audio, but if you want it done right, you'll have to do more studying, please do not just buy stuff without a full dive into more knowledge about crossovers, parametric eq's and dsp's.. the dsp's were a real gift when they came along!

but.. first step is a new alternator.. have to see what the current draw of the whole audio system is, minus what you need to drive the car..

also.. you can use the factory radio/headunit but if you're going into multi-amp setups.. the dsp's will be needed because who knows how the factory has tuned (read: EQ'd the signal). Might be better to get a new headunit, with multiple pre-amp/line outputs. So hold up.. and study...

Lots of homework for you... there will be a quiz later!!


check out crutchfield.com they have a lot of your basics that you can begin to learn more of what goal you're after.. (see here at Researcher's Car Audio, we even supply the study materials.. lol)

 

[1 SX]

@researcher I know im "crossing over" now haha. I am trying my VERY best to keep the factory radio.. BUT! There is only so much I can do with the peaks and valleys of the factory output, and that will be the issue in making this sound the best - I believe because the signal that amp ect is receiving is not all that "clean"? / or has cut frequencies or boosted frequencies, etc...

I spent some serious time on google and trying to make a base plan on my next steps. I want to keep it financially "reasonable", and do not have problem doing things in steps to get the best outcome.

I purposely stayed away from the fine tune adjustments on the subwoofer amp for simplicity, but know I would need to get "serious" if I were to amp up the infinity in car speakers.

Spent over a hour removing all connections on battery, terminals, grounds, and power wires plus upgraded the main negative chassis ground from battery. These are the results!.

Car not running both times, key acc position with radio playing.

BEFORE:

AFTER:

I "gained" almost 1/2 volt stationary..

The lights at idle with the subwoofer at full tilt and cleaning all connections / ground upgrades... I do not get even the slightest dim or voltage drop anywhere on any light that I can see visually... The capacitor reads 14.5 volts at engine idle even while drawing some watts..

It's has a brand new 890 CCA battery with the factory 110 amp alternator.
As I now I have NO plans on adding any more draw or powerful amps ect, so it would only be the JL audio 360/4 to power the interior speakers and the 500/1000 pioneer amp for the 12 inch subwoofer. I know I would be asking alot of the factory alternator lol.

I was also looking at sound processors.. as another band aid to keep the factory head unit but looks like if I were to jl audio amp the infinity speakers, I "SHOULD" get a processor to clean up the signal the amp receives.

So where I am at currently. STUDYING.

Thanks.

 

[1 SX]

You need to go from the

RADIO

to an active CROSSOVER

which splits the signals to the

AMPS

make sense?

now, before you go whip out your wallet, dont buy the Xover yet. Do some reading on digital signal processing, because the moment you finish with the Xover, you’re going to wish you had a parametric EQ to begin notching out trouble spots where things reverberate or boom unnaturally. You’ll spend 2-3x as much, but in the end, you’ll have everything you need in one box. DSP. Should have Xover, EQ and time alignment capabilities.

also, pick up a phone app with RTA (real time analyzer) and burn a CD with a Pink Noise file on it. Use 48khz sampling or the highest your head unit will decipher. You will play the pink noise track through the system while looking at your RTA, and some things will start to make sense in your head.

and then you will drool because this is getting real.

and then, you’ll cut some of the highs, because the true RTA will seem harsh, and cut some of the bottom lows because they are too pronounced, ending up with natural roll-off curves on the highs and lows.

the rta app should be free, or very inexpensive. The phone mic doesn’t need to be a perfect sampling mic for this - it will be good enough.

between the dsp, the RTA, and pink noise file, you should be busy for … a long time … tweaking….

"Sounds" good to me!.. But I have to be realistic with myself. would a nice premium aftermarket touchscreen unit with outputs ect make this whole job a lot easier.?

I really do want to keep the factory headunit. But at the same time if I could integrate the aftermarket head unit into all the factory controls and add a back up camera, etc. maybe that should be the route I should be going down...

talk to me. is this slightly foolish to keep the factory headunit (strictly for look's at this point) and work with all these other band aids to get the best sound?

 

[researcher]

"Sounds" good to me!.. But I have to be realistic with myself. would a nice premium aftermarket touchscreen unit with outputs ect make this whole job a lot easier.?

I really do want to keep the factory headunit. But at the same time if I could integrate the aftermarket head unit into all the factory controls and add a back up camera, etc. maybe that should be the route I should be going down...

talk to me. is this slightly foolish to keep the factory headunit (strictly for look's at this point) and work with all these other band aids to get the best sound?

I do apologize for my late reply, been busy lately.. and yes another headunit could offer more features like more outputs. The problem with keeping the factory headunit and adapting it to more "aftermarket" features sometimes costs more. The DSP has to take the usual factory sound profile and adapt it for a more flat sound. Most of your stock headunits have a sound profile that's why when you change speakers (Didn't happen with yours, just explaining) bass can be non-existent. That package worked together to get that sound.

Sometimes the factory is EQ'd that way to roll off treble because the sound designers knew of electrical noise. By rounding off some frequencies they could eliminate that interference from being heard. Then you put in an accurate, higher end audio system and BAM! you can hear that interference. I've had it happen. But you can eliminate those noises with noise filters, shielding, etc. Just making a point.

You can adapt most aftermarket headunits to support steering wheel controls, back-up cameras, etc. When done properly it's not a hack job like what you see on youtube. It can look just like factory! Just takes a little patience, do it once, do it right.

If you're enjoying the sound from your factory unit, then enjoy what you have right now.. If you desire more, then look around see what would work for you.. ask the simple questions, what do you exactly want that you don't have now? features? sound quality? try and go to a car audio shop and demo some things out, everyone's ears are different, even if they don't have hearing loss. People interpret treble, for examply, differently. Some like the harsher, brighter sound of a hard domed tweeter. While others would like the softer, silk domed tweeter. See what I'm getting at? Before spending lots of money get a feel for what you like.. It's definitely research you'll appreciate.

 

[1 SX]

@researcher thanks! So the route I went only because I have the jl audio 4 channel amp already is:

The icing on the cake on why I decided to install that amp was there is no helper amp so the service manual is slightly wrong there.

I’m going on hour 4.

What I’m going to do is only send a front signal to the amplifier then back to the front speakers since that’s the full signal range and then the jl audio amp will left and right channel the rear speakers. So I will lose fade to the infinity’s but will still have left and right, the rear speakers are all but useless at the moment because of the way the factory signal is, and I use the rear factory signal for the subwoofer amp input.

Looking like with the jl audio amp it’s 75 watts rms per channel x4 so that should really liven the infinity speakers up a lot considering the factory output head unit without amp is about 12-17 watts per channel.

 

[1 SX]

it is about two in the morning and 20f…. And well this was a huge undertaking and a half as a first timer

The Kia is disassembled rear panels, kick plates, parts of the dash, radio ect and It will probably stay that way for the night.

I do have sound though! It’s definitely “brighter” and a lot louder. And it’s weird to actually be able to hear the rear speakers so clear.

So I’ll probably need to spend another five hours or more today doing wire management, tuning, and re assembly.

 

[1 SX]

So it's almost perfect. BUT I have a serious buzzing or like a white noise static even with the car in accessory mode (amps on) radio off, car not even running coming through all the infinity speakers.

BUT with the h/l speaker input disconnected speakers are silent. As soon as I connect the input to the JL audio amp the white noise static starts, and turns in to almost like a squeal as soon as I turn on the parking lights or headlights make no difference. With car running it makes ZERO difference sound does not change with rpms.

I hooked up RCA's to the low level input on jl amp to test, and the static was still there.
disconnected pioneer amp - no difference
beige the output on jl amp - no difference
14.5 volts art idle at 12.6V on acc mode.
Rechecked all grounds even the interior one's behind all panels about a half a dozen total even engine grounds body grounds... - No difference.

THE only thing that I am worried about is:

It's completely wrong. I ran a temp ground wire to the factory headunit wire (RED WIRE SAYS THIS) and the temp ground wire sparked and blew the radio fuse immediately....

I also used the factory service manual pin layout:

So im not sure at the moment if its install error, or if I have the input wires all messed up causing the static or is its another issues all together...

Looking back. I should have only used the factory service manual layout because now I have serious doubt about ALL the wires... I am not even sure if the infinity speakers are wired correct as i cant remember what diagram I used...

 

[Graham Piccinini]

I came here looking for an easy OEM+ type of "upgrade" for the stock blown speakers in my 2009 Accent... After reading most of this thread I am certain that I need to focus-focus-focus on keeping it simple... Or I'll easily get carried away like @1 SX did here
Thankfully it should be pretty easy to find budget speakers that are better than OEM blown out rattling cardboard... "Fun" part will be taking out nearly all the interior panels and seats to reach the rear 6x8 speakers. (Had to do the same back in the day on my 2001 Civic LX coupe. Not hard, just time consuming. Hatchback does offer better access than the coupe did though, so that's nice.) Front 6 1/2 should be a piece of cake.
And yes, I too wish to keep the stock head unit.

Since Infinity apparently pairs well with Hyundia, according to some posts here, I am looking at purchasing these:
- Infinity Reference REF-6532EX for the front.
- Infinity Reference REF-8632CFX for the rear.

 

[1 SX]

did some more test.. and took out the head unit again..

all wires on the back of the head unit and into the speakers are colored correctly actually. The same for the high level input on the amplifier, color-coded, left channel right channel, and output lines up with the same color wires.

moving the wires behind headunit does not change static sound with lights on. Moving the dimmer switch doesn't make a difference. I disconnected the rear speakers, no difference.. ran a dedicated ground wire to the ground terminal on the radio and disconnect both XM antenna and fm antenna same results.

 

[1 SX]

Huh. I spliced the RCA wires to the output on radio and ran to the rca input on amp. turned lights on. Silent.. So my issues appears to be the speaker output wires.

 

[1 SX]

so confirmation, even after installing and running the new RCA cable
From the head unit to the RCA inputs on the amp, completely silent now even with lights on.
Feel pretty accomplished over this one. I went crazy so somehow there must be interference behind the dash or something and the speaker wire was picking up on it.

Looking back, I should’ve started there first I guess there’s always next time.

 

[1 SX]

another update... and some thoughts.

So I was wondering why after I installed the 4 channel amp.. my subwoofer sounded really shallow. messing with the gain and fq cut off I noticed I had the input wires RCA hooked to the OUTPUT RCA. I am telling you this audio install stuff IS NOT FOR THE FAINT of heart haha.

Even with the input sensitivity on the four channel amplifier at the very minimum the infinity speakers are LOUD but clear. volume 10 and its uncomfortable.. so I had to fade to the rear 3 clicks on the factory headunit (which is the subwoofer output only) then re adjust everything on the subwoofer amp. Now I can go over 20 and it's crystal clear, normal would be about 11 or 12 again.

I have absolutely no interference, static/noise or anything the like even under full electrical load.

Would I undertake the multiple month long project again???

Absolutely.. I learned ALOT, and the results of learning and asking questions ect paid off.. It really sounds shockingly good.

I am now at the limit of what I can do while still keeping the factory look.. I know whats coming. but im trying to avoid that.. at least for this year haha.

 

[1 SX]

I came here looking for an easy OEM+ type of "upgrade" for the stock blown speakers in my 2009 Accent... After reading most of this thread I am certain that I need to focus-focus-focus on keeping it simple... Or I'll easily get carried away like @1 SX did here
Thankfully it should be pretty easy to find budget speakers that are better than OEM blown out rattling cardboard... "Fun" part will be taking out nearly all the interior panels and seats to reach the rear 6x8 speakers. (Had to do the same back in the day on my 2001 Civic LX coupe. Not hard, just time consuming. Hatchback does offer better access than the coupe did though, so that's nice.) Front 6 1/2 should be a piece of cake.
And yes, I too wish to keep the stock head unit.

Since Infinity apparently pairs well with Hyundia, according to some posts here, I am looking at purchasing these:
- Infinity Reference REF-6532EX for the front.
- Infinity Reference REF-8632CFX for the rear.

Cliff notes on the infinity speakers and hyundais/kias. DO IT.
Before I undertook this project, the very first upgrade was the 4 infinity speakers, and thus is why im in this position today, because the speakers made such a HUGE difference by changing out just one component... I was hooked.

 

[1 SX]

Tuning time!

So even though everything is installed, and hooked up, TUNING takes just as long as installation.
I found out tuning in the driveway, is completely different once you're on road so I went for a hour drive and pulled over multiple times to adjust the (input sensitivity) on the 4 channel amp as the rear infinity's were over powering the fronts slightly. Then I had to turn on the high pass filter because all the infinity speakers turned into a slightly muddy mess with panels vibrations at higher volumes because I had "full range" on amp selected, when I should of had high pass filter selected with a reasonable cut off frequency. I have the bass @ zero / flat on head unit. I also had to readjust the low pass cut off frequency on the subwoofer amp, and adjust the gain multiple times and well... im still not done haha. I am going to give it one more shot today to get it "perfect" enough... then never touch an adjustment again.

I'll say this. I am extremely happy with the results while keeping the factory headunit.
BUT it took ALOT MORE then just putting in a aftermarket head unit, running some RCAs, and calling it good.. Keeping the factory look was alot harder than I thought it would be. I'll say this now because it's over with and installed but I budgeted two hours TOTAL thinking I could do everything, and have time for dinner that night. Well 12 hours that night well into 2 or 3Am the next morning... took a rest for a couple hours... and then tacked it again for another 10 hours haha. Yes this install honestly took me 25 hours or more. But I did spend many hours trying to fix that buzzing with the lights on which turned out to be user error by using low quality unshielded speaker wire.

I WOULD do it again, but not right away There is SO MUCH MORE to this that I ever imagined. But I learned a tremendous amount of knowledge on aftermarket audio installs while keeping the factory head unit, all the different amp settings and what they mean and do, bigger the better on grounds & power, (goes in comes out!) the big 3 upgrade, ECT. and im sure would be alot more efficient the 2nd time.

last note. As of right now I am going to skip the sound processor, as I have thousands of songs on a usb drive with all kind of different quality tracks 96-320 or higher bit rates and listen to the compressed xm, so I think since my input quality is so low to begin with on both the USB drive and xm I don't think sound processor would be able to fix that... I can absolutely hear the difference from a usb mp3 128 alll the way up to a 320 bit rate song so I think the factory sound processor is actually decent, "IF" I had high quality input media.. I don't own a CD so Im not even sure how that wound sound.

 

[researcher]

@1 SX m ok.. without clicking reply.. I'll highlight what might be going on..

first.. you took the speaker wire outputs and wired them into RCA type wires? Ok that's why it's too loud. You're basically using a powered amp from the radio to send a line-level input to the external amp. It's why you've had to turn the gains WAY down..

next.. the amp with static is why I never liked hooking up via those speaker level outputs, but see, you're learning why. They are what I call "dirty" outputs, I can only imagine where the static is coming from. You tried ground, there are filters you can get, but in the end you spend a lot of time scratching your head not knowing what the heck is wrong. See now why I said RCA if you can for line level inputs. There used to be external adapters that would take the speaker level outputs and convert them to RCA outputs. They had filters for noise and they worked well. I say well, not perfectly..

next topic.. here you thought it was only "2 hours".. LOL are you seeing how deep the rabbit hole is? It's like a bottomless pit that sucks you in and of course you can't stop once you started because the rabbit keeps dangling that carrot in front of you as it runs away! You're so sure that if you do this or that, it will work.. another hour goes by.. You're dedicated my friend, I tell ya!! 20degrees? wow.. but like you said you learned a lot!!

ok I re-read that.. the speaker wires were unshielded? that was the source of your noise? Does that mean you're not wired into RCA type plugs from the speaker wire?

and that sound processor isn't for usb flash drive audio files, it's for tuning a factory radio/headunit into a clean signal for an external amp. Because speaker level is not as clean as a line-level.

Now you see (and hey it's all good learning this) what I was saying about how far do you want to go with keeping the factory radio/headunit. After awhile it's just not worth it, if it's a radio that is a somewhat normal standard size (single din, double din), aftermarket can have much better offerings. If it's built into the dash with a tablet screen, etc.. then of course a signal processor might be the only option. But you don't have that, thankfully! One more thing I forgot to mention when you do look at aftermarket headunits, make sure that they have the highest voltage for line level outputs. That will make sure the signal gets to the amp as clean as it can get!

Glad you learned a lot.. you now have a story for the future of "remember back in the day when I spent all night in the cold trying to fix my audio setup in the car..."

and we all know you're not done at all!! This is only the beginning...

 

[1 SX]

Well, this took a completely different turn I guess your never "done"

Infinity tweeters with crossovers. Installed in the factory locations with just a little mod. I used the factory tweeter bracket then screwed the bracket down and that held the infinity tweeter. Even went as far to push the factory tweeter grills out so the frequency is projected out better.

This was a HUGE difference also. I never knew how much a good set of tweeters really help the sound stage, but wow!

 

[1 SX]

@researcher
Quick question, and maybe I'm nit picking now haha but when I have the factory radio at zero and amps powered on, (acc mode or engine running makes no difference) I have the slightest and I mean the slightest - to be within 4 inches of infinity tweeter or main infinity speaker to hear it but like a static or white noise.

With the input RCA's disconnected but amp on - no noise.
I can not hear the noise sitting in the seat in acc mode at volume 0, and definitely can't hear it with the engine on or any accessories.

My thinking is: it's normal "dirty" sound of the factory head unit output since im amplifying the factory output into a 4 channel amp - It's also amplifying the 0.02% noise the factory head unit has but factory speakers could not reproduce because they were so inefficient.

 

[researcher]

@researcher
Quick question, and maybe I'm nit picking now haha but when I have the factory radio at zero and amps powered on, (acc mode or engine running makes no difference) I have the slightest and I mean the slightest - to be within 4 inches of infinity tweeter or main infinity speaker to hear it but like a static or white noise.

With the input RCA's disconnected but amp on - no noise.
I can not hear the noise sitting in the seat in acc mode at volume 0, and definitely can't hear it with the engine on or any accessories.

My thinking is: it's normal "dirty" sound of the factory head unit output since im amplifying the factory output into a 4 channel amp - It's also amplifying the 0.02% noise the factory head unit has but factory speakers could not reproduce because they were so inefficient.

I remember I think I was asking before about how you connected the wires.. did you connect the speaker wires from the headunit/radio to rca plugs? If so, then that's where the noise could be coming from. Usually line out converters will take speaker level inputs convert them to line-level outputs via rca jacks. They can clean up the sound better than directly putting speaker wire into the amp. Plus you can adjust the voltages of the speaker inputs to more clearly match the input levels on the line-level output.. better balance.

Well I just looked, line out converters are not that expensive.. might be better to do that for the short term. It's up to you.. I did look on amazon real quick, looks like kicker has some nice ones.. you'd need two, one for the front, one for the rear.. around $20 each.. just giving you other options.. Saw a no-name called "re-coil" has four speaker level inputs and 4 line-level rca outputs.. nice! the kicker was just 2 at a time.. none of it was that expensive..

here's the recoil brand link

https://www.amazon.com/LOC4-Channel-Speaker-Adjustable-Converter/dp/B09MTHDJ7D

and kicker (but you'd need two, one front, one rear)
https://www.amazon.com/Kicker-KISLOC-2-Channel-Speaker-Converter/dp/B00I4EF1BC

But please let me know about the speaker to rca wires, if spliced like that, definitely amplifying what noise there is..

EDIT: forgot to add, nice tweeters you added! They said they were a "textile" dome tweeter.. but all the reviews went crazy on how CLEAR they are! awesome! I'm glad they're not the aluminum hard dome tweeters, those always seem to be harsh and too bright to me.. Sounds like you found a tweeter for all types of music! awesome!

 

[1 SX]

@researcher TY On order currently is that kicker LOC and the highest quality shielded RCA cables I could find.

I connected the head unit output wires to RCA input (speaker wire to RCA - no filter ) to the 4 channel amp.. I do not have a LOC for 4 channel amp - but is on order... last note - that white noise sound is so faint that I have to literally be within 3 inches from speaker to hear it... without music on (radio on volume zero) and without car running.. The friction of my sweatshirt while trying to listen for the white noise is louder.

and I ABSOLUTELY love these Infinity tweeters! They really equaled out the soundstage frequencies and play higher frequencies / sounds I never knew existed.... Plus they are NOT harsh, and really "blend" in with the other infinity speakers so nicely. Looking back high quality tweeters should've been my very first upgrade, but honestly did not know what I was missing out on.

For viewer enjoyment. Here are a couple pictures of the factory tweeter. The speaker wires are the most impressive thing about them lol.

 

[researcher]

@researcher TY On order currently is that kicker LOC and the highest quality shielded RCA cables I could find.

I connected the head unit output wires to RCA input (speaker wire to RCA - no filter ) to the 4 channel amp.. I do not have a LOC for 4 channel amp - but is on order... last note - that white noise sound is so faint that I have to literally be within 3 inches from speaker to hear it... without music on (radio on volume zero) and without car running.. The friction of my sweatshirt while trying to listen for the white noise is louder.

and I ABSOLUTELY love these Infinity tweeters! They really equaled out the soundstage frequencies and play higher frequencies / sounds I never knew existed.... Plus they are NOT harsh, and really "blend" in with the other infinity speakers so nicely. Looking back high quality tweeters should've been my very first upgrade, but honestly did not know what I was missing out on.

For viewer enjoyment. Here are a couple pictures of the factory tweeter. The speaker wires are the most impressive thing about them lol.

hey you're welcome.. did you get two of the LOC's? for front and rear, that kicker was only 1 pair of left and right. Ok I re-read your post, it's on order.. cool!

ok so you did just swap the connection end to the speaker wire, was making sure I was reading that correctly. Yup there's the noise. I remember way back in the day when I started out, I hooked up my first amp via speaker level inputs, and there was noise. It was an Alpine amp too! What also adds to it is that the new amp is cleaner and able to pick up on any noise. I remember one car I added an aftermarket audio setup and instantly I could hear the whine of the alternator! Turns out the factory had put in TWO noise filters into the system! One in the radio and one on the power line to the radio! But anyway, it's amazing what a good amp will pickup! Definitely sounds like a signal noise issue when you're only 3-4 inches from it and probably having to hold your breath to hear it. No problem the LOC's have an audio transformer that isolates the noise from speaker level. Should be good now!


And no need to beat yourself up, if you are.. learning is what it's all about. And you chose wisely with those infinity tweeters! Oh it's definitely high quality but it's also the type of tweeter and the material it's made from. You really get into the fine details of material composition plus design (dome, flat, ribbon, etc) when you want to find the best.. plus it's all learning. Imagine how later on when it's time to do an upgrade how much you'll know!

Yep those look like average stock tweeters, LOL.. ya the wires might be the only good thing, but.. With all the bean counters in an auto company lucky you had any tweeters at all! I know with the tC (scion) the speakers were done by pioneer for toyota, and that system isn't that bad for stock. Then again, Pioneer does make some good stuff for oem. Glad you're enjoying your new system! And ya a tweeter up at the door pillar definitely gets the sound stage up off the floor where the door speakers are down low! I can imagine the sound is up around the top of the dash now! very cool..