GM Shifts Engineering to Electric Programs

[philipp10]

2

Highly unlikely and non sequitur.

Physics as well as overall independent net sum required for the total switchover don't support the EV ever having a 1:1 relationship with an ICE no matter how the fans parse the words or wish upon the stars.

Also, remember this

Nobody has a "lock" or "secret sauce" for the EV, the battery or ability to build the infrastructure. The technology, requirements, science, manufacturing ability are not only well known but very old.

Don't think for a second that every industrial nation has not investigated this subject as well as hundreds of potential manufacturers (including autos and even oil/gas- they are in the business of making MONEY and if theres MONEY there , they won't need encouragement to pursue it)

Whoever does perfect this technology will not only be an industry leader but well on the road to being an economic and possibly military superpower.

The fact that all the major players do little more than token R&D, pay political lip service and have little more than a proposed market footprint should tell people something.

There is a reason Tesla (et al) doesn't have major competition in either the technology or commodity realm and its not because he has some exclusive 'something"- its that the players HAVE conducted the research and seen the total picture is why every nation and auto manufacturer isn't rushing to get into the game.

20 years ago no one envisioned a Tesla doing what they have done. In 20 years we will have batteries you cannot even imagine.

 

[UncleDave]

Eager to see what the General can pull off and what it takes for the vehicles to make any contribution margin or if they will be subsidized by the ice line. I wonder if this crop will have basic things down like unified control, or if they'll keep trying it the old way with distributed 3rd party gear.

Curious to see how cooling works in its modular battery unless it has really limited configs.
We'll see how many they can make and how good they are in a few years.

Most here seem to eschew all forms and levels of automation, regardless of the data behind them or just enjoy complaining about teslas, but It will be interesting to see how the various assist packages compete. Returning from a 1K Roadtrip yesterday even Hondas basic automation is helpful in reducing drive load. The cadillac super cruise is supposed to be a good system, and Id guess they will continue to improve on it.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

20 years ago no one envisioned a Tesla doing what they have done. In 20 years we will have batteries you cannot even imagine.

20 years ago was a different political climate and Tesla has not done anything "new'- they have simply advanced some things in batteries and made a modern designed vehicle with an electric power plant( anyone could make the car, its just painted metal, motors and all that already existed just had to be adapted to a vehicle). But lets give them their just do, Elon is the best marketer since PT himself.

As far as these batteries- what will they be made of? What will the cost be? What will the weight be? What will the lifecycle be? What infrastructure will it take to manufacture and support them? What will the power be?

Most importantly, How much more range, endurance and payload capacity will they add to the EV and how much closer to a total 1:1with an ICE will it bring? (fail there and the EV stays in its niche forever)

Imagining this "battery" and promoting the dream is easy- finding the materials too make it with and construct it at a necessary pricepoint is a different matter.

Might need to add a few elements to the table.

 

[JeffKeryk]

20 years ago was a different political climate and Tesla has not done anything "new'- they have simply advanced some things in batteries and made a modern designed vehicle with an electric power plant( anyone could make the car, its just painted metal, motors and all that already existed just had to be adapted to a vehicle).

Teslas were designed and built as EV from the ground up; Tesla is currently the only pure play EV company.
The mighty Porsche and Audi spent huge money co-developing the powertrain for the Taycan and e-tron. The e-tron is built on an ICE chassis. Jaguar's I-Pace has struggled. These expensive cars from world class engineers go around 200 miles on a charge; the top Model S is rated at 400 miles.
Heck, an entry level Model 3 beats the Europeans. The Model S is 10 years old and no one has caught up.

The Model 3 has been called an iPhone in comparison to other cars. It's the tech. You almost get a new car with the over-the-air updates.
The minimalist interior is controversial. Devoid of buttons. Easily upgradeable in the future. This car is futuristic. Every review calls it so.
After driving the Model 3, I find our Lexi interiors overly (and unnecessarily) complicated.
The car is software driven, just about all settings are done through the infotainment system.
Little things differentiate the car, such as the hidden, across the dash AC system "vents". Vegan leather follows the sustainability theme.
Your cell phone is your key (no ignition) and more; it controls a variety of functions remotely.
The voice commands keep improving. You can speak commands such as "show me Superchargers," "lock the doors," or "text ABN." I mostly just say, "set the temperature to 70".

Then there's AP. Tesla sends AP data back to a data store. It has billions of miles of AP data which feeds its Machine Learning applications.
The charging infrastructure sets Tesla apart. These cars are a flat out blast to drive.

It goes on. If anyone could build a Tesla, why haven't they? I suggest talking to owners and driving one. These cars are different.
All good.
If you are into futuristic tech, you will be intrigued.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Teslas were designed and built as EV from the ground up; Tesla is currently the only pure play EV company.

From an engineering perspective, that statement means absolutely nothing. There is nothing "invented" for it and nothing that didn't exist before Tesla. I challenge you to literally show something exclusive to Tesla. I want you to point out specifically what the engineering differences for an EV that don't correspond to a conventional car? I and every other design engineer have "adapted" things to other things- that's nothing new or special.

Sure its got everything that I would expect to see on the bridge of the Enterprise but none of it was invented by Tesla- just modern technology modified and adapted to fit the current design. Not a bit different than what I have done for decades. Dr. Brown did it in the 80's with a Delorean so even the concept is ancient.

It goes on. If anyone could build a Tesla, why haven't they?

Simple, no one cut a PO for it. Had someone, it would have already been built.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

The mighty Porsche and Audi spent huge money co-developing the powertrain for the Taycan and e-tron. The e-tron is built on an ICE chassis. Jaguar's I-Pace has struggled. These expensive cars from world class engineers go around 200 miles on a charge; the top Model S is rated at 400 miles.

Heck, an entry level Model 3 beats the Europeans. The Model S is 10 years old and no one has caught up.

After thinking, this deserves a separate comment because this is a different animal you may or may not be aware of.

These "engineers" are constrained by what the parent company says they want ( in terms of price point, how it fits into their overall plan, manufacturing capacity integration and a whole lot more) as well as performance criteria to build to- they don't have billions of dollars from investors and free reign to do whatever.

A lot of pieces have to fit to design engineer and manufacture a new product into an existing operation so that's hardly a statement of any superiority on the part of Tesla or indication of technical inadequacy on the part of other OEMs.

Tesla being a 1 trick pony would have a slight advantage in that area but that advantage can become a terminal liability real quick if they hit a market ceiling or fail to deliver.

Just FYI, there is nothing "secret" or high tech about designing a machine (EV or otherwise) or powering it electrically and adding a control package. Its done literally everywhere every single day in industry- its simply a matter of how much the people with the PO want to spend.

You might want to investigate why the other companies aren't investing as much? As I said earlier, they HAVE done the math and realize the limitations.

If Tesla doesn't achieve the battery to get the penetration beyond the niche and toy market, they are going to realize it too when the investors leave and the bills come due. (I seem to remember solar panel companies a few years back being the next big thing- where are they today?)