From the article, we don't know that, at least in their EV business.
Regardless, kudos to GM for their improvements.
GM Now “Variable Profit Positive” on EVs
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Regardless, kudos to GM for their improvements.
IIRC that was due to a write down. For the year, GM expanded overall sales by 4%, to 2.7 million vehicles, our highest total since 2019. GM estimates its 2024 market share at 16.5. We finished the year with inventory of about 54 days, meeting our target. All of our brands – Chevrolet, GMC, Buick and Cadillac – posted strong sales gains. The dip could be a buying opp.
You said in post #7 GM was loosing money on every sale. If the headline is correct, they are not - there covering there variable costs of production - hence not loosing money on EV's (fixed vs variable)
Then you inferred in #19 that GM wasn't even counting labor in their direct costs. Everyone knows labor is a direct cost.
When another poster asked if you had the numbers for GM - you said you didn't care, after you explicitly said earlier that you would love to see the calculations.
Then you bring up deferred revenue. If they were deferring revenue from EV sales wouldn't that meant there even more profitable?
My only point is if in manufacturing your direct costs are less than your sales price, it makes sense to continue production (capital recovery) even if with indirect costs and depreciation (which are always cooked books anyway) your loosing money. But GM is making money so there is that.
All of your comments seem to indicate your unhappy GM is making money or don't believe it.
The entire industry stocks are down - shrinking global sales, the perceived dominance of BYD in Asia.
GM was up 40% last year. Down 10% from what? TSLA is down 20% from there highs. Toyota is down from there highs also.
No, I said good for GM on their continued improvements. They are making progress. This is typical in the product life cycle.You said in post #7 GM was loosing money on every sale. If the headline is correct, they are not - there covering there variable costs of production - hence not loosing money on EV's (fixed vs variable)
Then you inferred in #19 that GM wasn't even counting labor in their direct costs. Everyone knows labor is a direct cost.
When another poster asked if you had the numbers for GM - you said you didn't care, after you explicitly said earlier that you would love to see the calculations.
Then you bring up deferred revenue. If they were deferring revenue from EV sales wouldn't that meant there even more profitable?
My only point is if in manufacturing your direct costs are less than your sales price, it makes sense to continue production (capital recovery) even if with indirect costs and depreciation (which are always cooked books anyway) your loosing money. But GM is making money so there is that.
All of your comments seem to indicate your unhappy GM is making money or don't believe it.
You are correct, my example of labor cost is not appropriate. It could have been better. Regardless, this article does not speak to total cost.
And no, this article does not say GM is profitable in their EV business.
I generally wish competing companies success, as it tends to be better for the customer.
*LOL*
Yeah, how is this, that GM haters and Tesla lovers fail to acknowledge this?
GM is a car company and makes more money and has made more money in the last 15 years than Tesla could ever dream of. In fact all those years GM has exceeded even Tesla's best ever year.
Those unformed misleading statements on Tesla profit margins drive me NuTs only because they seek to discredit GM's profit performance. YET in the same breath they fail to mention the absolute BEATING of Tesla's profit margins in the last two years.
Absolute disaster of almost Tesla negative growth in the USA for 2024 even with those reduced margins. Massive negative Tesla growth in the E/U for the year 2024 of minus 13%!
I mean, come on already, I have nothing against Tesla but stop telling me how GM isnt making money on EVs when their earnings have beat Tesla every year that Tesla has been in existence.
Good for Tesla, I hope they can make progress on making money, GM has been doing it all along
Competition is good, let then do battle! The Equinox EV was born and it's a beautiful EV for the price. I could care less if GM loses money on it, the consumer wins and yet, GM turns a profit every year, good for them and me.
TSLA reported EV sales in the USA dropped, go figure. The headlines:
Tesla reported disappointing results on the top and bottom lines. Automotive revenue fell 8% from a year earlier. Adjusted net income dropped 23%.
Just the headlines, tomorrow should be interesting, especially since they missed. IMO a big part of it is the competition is becoming a little more of a reality now, and some people might just be losing interest in EVs. Time will tell.
GM makes money in other areas, but they aren't making money on EVs. That's not for long with what they're making now. Even people who don't like EVs realize how good GM EVs are getting.
That's not a slight at GM, they're close. I never thought I'd buy another GM but if they might the right EV I'd buy one. I just don't want what they make so far.
I'm just tired of trucks and crossovers. Make me something interesting. The only thing I that got me to buy the Model Y Performance beyond it's performance specs is that I don't think it's actually a proper crossover. If I was trying to buy a crossover it's not a good one. It's too small to be one, but I wanted a hatchback anyway. I think hatchbacks are dead though and with the limited demand for EVs it's not going to happen.
GM is going to smoke Tesla in very short order on EVs alone with Musk's extra curricular activities lately. Yeesh.
I dont want to post on it yet. My son expects to have a new M series BMW EV by July. Supposed to be on order. We will see. He has been waiting for some time now, had the electric put in his garage late last year.
I love the BMW styling, looks like nice sculpted metal and amazing pain for the price, interior too. I'll wait to post until I know for sure.
@Torrid
I love the BMW styling, looks like nice sculpted metal and amazing pain for the price, interior too. I'll wait to post until I know for sure.
@Torrid
GM has made compelling EVs since 2011. With proper marketing and dealer support the Volt could have been a HUGE success. If my 2015 Volt had CarPlay and two inches more ground clearance I wouldn’t have traded it in on the Bolt.
Then add in that Musk has said that Tesla is going to build an electric motorcycle, bus etc. The ev motorcycle market is not doing well. Four electric motorcycle manufacturers have gone bankrupt in the last four years two including Livewire are barely hanging on. It makes me wonder if he's even paying attention to the market. Musks big issue is claiming a product will be ready "soon" then it taking years if it even shows up. He claimed the Cybertruck would tow 14k pounds have a range of 500 miles and have a range extender for 16k. Now it's delayed till may 2025 will be more than 16k and have fewer miles than promised.
What do you find so objectionable about the Mach-E? We like ours.
Many are mad about the Mustang name. The only issue I'm aware of with them is the overheating battery contact on the early model GTs that would pull power after 5 seconds on a full throttle pull, but that's been since remedied. People getting mad about the name amuses me. The problem for those people that want to keep the purity of the Mustang name have the Mach-E to thank for allowing the V8 to still exist.
Tesla has been profitable for about the last 3 years out of 15 (rough numbers) It was media darling because no one was producing a car with an electric engine as we heard was the great sales growth numbers around 2002.
You can go back years of my post saying the same thing. It's easy to have sales growth when no one else is making the same product and that product has only recently appeared on the market. Well, now the legacies are producing the same thing with GM dealers on every corner in America. GM sales growth in the USA is the admiration of Tesla now. GM EV sales growth increased 125% in the 4th quarter of 2024 and increased 50% for the full 2024. Tesla USA sales were down 1% or so.
I posted some of this in the past but I am told Tesla is a technology company? Well they better start doing something. The stock sells WAY over 100times its earnings while GM is around 6 times. They still only have 2 cars on the market that a typical middle to upper middle income family can buy.
Im not against Tesla jsut the pushback I received when pointing out the simple fact that it is easy to be a hero when no one has the same motor in the car as Tesla did. But now everyone does and they are still ramping up. Ramping up at reduced levels because the majority of Americans are not buying BEV powered cars, gasoline is still the most desired.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gms-electric-gains-face-critical-110144438.html
Todays "news" ^^
BTW my feelings are BEVs certainly have their place for certain use but already we know they are an incredibly hard sell to the public and the one major reason sales are even marginal is buyers are given $7,500 to buy one at time of purchase. Let's take that away and see how sales go.
You can go back years of my post saying the same thing. It's easy to have sales growth when no one else is making the same product and that product has only recently appeared on the market. Well, now the legacies are producing the same thing with GM dealers on every corner in America. GM sales growth in the USA is the admiration of Tesla now. GM EV sales growth increased 125% in the 4th quarter of 2024 and increased 50% for the full 2024. Tesla USA sales were down 1% or so.
I posted some of this in the past but I am told Tesla is a technology company? Well they better start doing something. The stock sells WAY over 100times its earnings while GM is around 6 times. They still only have 2 cars on the market that a typical middle to upper middle income family can buy.
Im not against Tesla jsut the pushback I received when pointing out the simple fact that it is easy to be a hero when no one has the same motor in the car as Tesla did. But now everyone does and they are still ramping up. Ramping up at reduced levels because the majority of Americans are not buying BEV powered cars, gasoline is still the most desired.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gms-electric-gains-face-critical-110144438.html
Todays "news" ^^
BTW my feelings are BEVs certainly have their place for certain use but already we know they are an incredibly hard sell to the public and the one major reason sales are even marginal is buyers are given $7,500 to buy one at time of purchase. Let's take that away and see how sales go.
Start up companies always lose money until business ramps up sufficiently or they go belly up.
Tesla got a huge influx of cash from Toyota in their early years. Without which, chances they never would have made it past their first 5 years. The joint effort resulted in the RAV4 EV; my neighbors had one. Toyota sold their investment stock and got out; kinda missed the boat, right?
All the EV business has problems. I wonder when GM will make a profit on their EV business? CEO Barra has said soon...
Of course Tesla's problems go beyond their actual products... Look at what has been happening to sales and stock.
I don’t hate Elon but I do think Tesla needs a new CEO. Someone more neutral who can lead the company as their first priority without bringing politics into it.
The good news is for GM. There are a multifaceted vehicle manufacturer and without trying to exaggerate they are killing it in the sales and profit department.
If Tesla had more diversified vehicle line, I don’t think that they would be in the position they’re in currently. What the future holds I have no clue but I wish I knew ha ha
You know, there is one thing that bothers me regarding Tesla. I read an awful lot of comments about the interior of their vehicles not from you, of course, but they seem to be ignoring what I think has to be some part of consumer wants. I think a big deal is the lack of buttons on a dashboard and having to tap through a touchscreen I only say that because I hear about it very often even when other manufacturers, let’s say BMW starts reducing buttons.
I can tell you now having a 2025 equinox gasoline vehicle. I much appreciate all the buttons and dials yet. Interestingly, you could also use the touchscreen for a lot of them. However it’s kind of distracting versus a dedicated button. You reach your finger down and you push it
I honestly feel it’s a cost cutting measure not to have physical buttons while you’re operating a motor vehicle at 85 miles an hour on an interstate or in regular traffic with traffic lights
One last thing, I do not consider Tesla a startup company. They have been producing vehicles for over 15 years now and have only been profitable for about three.
I just don’t understand what their plans are, but maybe they’re gonna blow us all away. Method to the madness.
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A few points...
GM is a legendary company. Without bailouts, they might be a segmented company at best. Remember Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Saturn, etc? "Too big to fail." In fact, without trucks, where would they be today? Why doesn't GM does not report out their EV business? It's a fair question.
Tesla is an EV and technology company. They are very diversified, but have no desire to manufacuture ICE vehicles. Tesla makes the best solar storage systems, have the best charging infrastructure. Robotics. FSD. Dojo Supercomputer. And that little Artificial Intelligence thing, which is likely to be the most valuable of all.
Tesla screen based controls are not for everyone. On the other hand, young people take to the digital interface very easily. But to think you have to traverse through menu items is not how we owners operate the cars. I find out 2 Lexi far more difficult and distracting. I do think Tesla takes some changes too far, and/or does not execute some well. The sometimes sticky blinker buttons on our car needs to be improved. I am considering installing a stalk.
You are spot on; Tesla is not longer a startup. It is in growth mode. Appararantly there are new cars coming. My point is, startups take time to become profitable.
I think we know Tesla's problem... All good AG.
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Without government loans, if I remember correctly, Tesla may not exist
All good just discussing!
I just don’t understand why you keep bringing that up. The fact of the matter is both company survived and big companies all over this country survive in the same way.
If you really think about it, the company that survives was the smartest of them all using the system to their advantage. Just about like any American does.