GM Hides Behind Bankruptcy for Faulty Switches

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Originally Posted By: ram_man
Proof that the govt has no place in the private sector. Sad and very shameful.


Foreign governments underwriting their car companies and writing protectionist laws many years ago started this phenomenon. We still don't get a fair shake in foreign markets.

All these people wishing death to GM have no soul. Where are car enthusiasts going to get a decent ride? What will happen to the vette and camaro? Y'all don't care because you arent car people. You're oil changers. Get back in your boring Camry and be off.
 
Our government could not run a lemonade stand without a startup subsidy, a law against competition, a tax exemption, a periodic bailout and protection against having to pay the minimum wage to those it employed.

Getting involved in giving millions of dollars in shares to their union campaign fund donors and all the other monkey business with old GM and new GM and loosing $12B in the deal including GMAC and putting profitable GM dealerships out of business was a demonstration that with out tax money their greed knows no bounds. At least an ordinary criminal points a gun at you before he robs you.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Proof that the govt has no place in the private sector. Sad and very shameful.


Foreign governments underwriting their car companies and writing protectionist laws many years ago started this phenomenon. We still don't get a fair shake in foreign markets.



TV is right, the foreign governments invest heavily in their manufacturers to break into and be competitive in the US market, which is why free trade can't exist since we aren't playing on a level playing field with other countries.
 
[/quote]We still don't get a fair shake in foreign markets. [/quote]

I'm an American car fan, I run American cars despite their unsuitability for UK roads. I like their easy to drive comfortable cruising qualities enough to put up with indifferent build quality and poor handling on narrow twisting roads.

The cars USA makers sent to Europe didn't match up to other cars of similar size and price. To make inroads they needed to be at least as good or better. They weren't.

Claud.
 
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
And yet everyone brags that VW is too big to fail and the German govt will save them.


Stating a fact is not "bragging", dude.
 
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Proof that the govt has no place in the private sector. Sad and very shameful.


Foreign governments underwriting their car companies and writing protectionist laws many years ago started this phenomenon. We still don't get a fair shake in foreign markets.



TV is right, the foreign governments invest heavily in their manufacturers to break into and be competitive in the US market, which is why free trade can't exist since we aren't playing on a level playing field with other countries.


kind of like how the US govt subsidized GM????
 
Originally Posted By: shiny
We have the best government that TBTF mega-corporations can buy. The argument always goes that allowing the Big Auto to fail will destroy jobs and hurt the economy. But think about all the innovative, alternative start-up companies trying to get a foothold in the automotive market. They can't break in because of the dominance of Big Auto. Some of them have ideas that could be as revolutionary for transportation as Ford's Model T was to the horse and buggy. But they'll never have a chance when Big Auto is protected from the consequences of their bad decisions.


You forgot to mention who got a huge chunk out of this deal... Big Unions.
 
Originally Posted By: dishdude
GM paid out over $595M to victims, even though many accidents had mitigating factors such as drugs and alcohol, drivers that had fallen asleep, speeding and no seat belt use.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ge...-595m/77086980/



Originally Posted By: dishdude
GM paid out over $595M to victims, even though many accidents had mitigating factors such as drugs and alcohol, drivers that had fallen asleep, speeding and no seat belt use.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ge...-595m/77086980/



This is the difference.

GM didn't skirt payouts to those directly affected by the faulty ignition switches. They didn't hide behind bankruptcy. They created the compensation fund, even kept it open longer than intended to make sure everyone who was entitled had time to file their claim. They paid out to estates and individuals who had already received a settlement. They paid out to estates and individuals who didn't fit NHTSA's definition of victims (NHTSA said 27 deaths... GM paid out to 124). They paid out to estates and individuals who's circumstances extended far beyond the ignition switch (driving while impaired, etc).

In all honestly, GM did a pretty upstanding thing with the compensation fund. I'd even say it was unprecedented.

What's left are lawyers trying to cash in on class action suits for intangibles like diminished value or individuals who weren't eligible under the compensation fund or who'd like to try their luck in court. Bankruptcy offers protections... which is why companies file. There is nothing off about GM waiting for a multi-district ruling to be made to determine if those protections apply before opening the floodgates to other suits.

Heck, we have a presidential candidate who has run companies that have done the exact same thing... many times.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Foreign governments underwriting their car companies and writing protectionist laws many years ago started this phenomenon. We still don't get a fair shake in foreign markets.

All these people wishing death to GM have no soul. Where are car enthusiasts going to get a decent ride? What will happen to the vette and camaro? Y'all don't care because you arent car people. You're oil changers. Get back in your boring Camry and be off.

Detroit Big-3 complaint about they couldn't sell many vehicles in Japan in 80's and 90's because of protectionist laws. But the reasons were: All vehicles were too big for tiny Japanese streets, terrible gas mileage and left hand steering, also no dealers for service ...

The way Detroit Big-3 did was just dump their vehicles on Japanese port(s) and expect to sell like hot cake.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Detroit Big-3 complaint about they couldn't sell many vehicles in Japan in 80's and 90's because of protectionist laws. But the reasons were: All vehicles were too big for tiny Japanese streets, terrible gas mileage and left hand steering, also no dealers for service ...

The way Detroit Big-3 did was just dump their vehicles on Japanese port(s) and expect to sell like hot cake.


Why would they invest in designing a vehicle for a market they weren't allowed in?
 
Originally Posted By: shiny
So let me get this straight... GM's financial division made so many bad subprime car loans that it drove them into bankruptcy. They got bailed out by taxpayers. Since then, they've earned over $22 billion to become one of the most profitable auto makers, while We the People lost over $10 billion on the deal. Now, they're arguing that bankruptcy protection should prevent taxpayers from suing them over their faulty switches.

GM Says Bankruptcy Appeal Should Wait For 2nd Circ. Ruling
By Brandon Lowrey
Law360, Los Angeles (December 23, 2015, 10:52 PM ET) -- General Motors LLC on Tuesday urged a New York federal judge handling multidistrict litigation over faulty ignition switches to delay review of a recent bankruptcy court judgment until after the Second Circuit decides whether bankruptcy protections block most car owners from suing New GM for billions over the defect.


You wanted things straight - GMAC's auto loans held up rather well; it was its home loans that swan-dived into the deep end of a drained pool.

There are other omissions; if you want to find out more do some of your own research. You won't find enough of it on an oil board.
 
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
That's what happens when you're "too big to fail"! I used to be a lifetime GM guy, but a few bad experiences & relatives losing a fortune on worthless GM stock fixed that.


I lost all that money on GM stock too. So much for trusting strong American companies for my retirement.

Thank goodness my Ford stock went up in value a touch!
 
It's reasons like this that they should've been allowed to fail. It would've been short term pain and long term gain for the industry on the whole and consumers. Capitalism is like nature, it can be cruel and painful at times but ultimately results in a more perfect beast. Everyone loves it for that reason until it's time to take the medicine, then enter the gubmint with the free ribbons.
 
As pathetic as it is, if the USA legal system will/might accept this position, then GM is obligated to try for it.

I have no compassion to any company that tries to sell defective products, let the market decide their fate after punishment is meted out. In otherwords, keep government out of the marketplace.
 
It is unfortunate, but bankruptcy has recently entered corporate culture as part of acceptable business plans. It allows a company to shed certain responsibilities and debts, reorganize, and continue with the same business, same players, and same product.
 
I used to be a GM guy but now I have a 2014 and a 2016 Ford in my garage.

PS: Comparing Ford's 'bailout' to GM's 'bailout' is apples to oranges.....
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
And yet everyone brags that VW is too big to fail and the German govt will save them.


Stating a fact is not "bragging", dude.


This is just an anti GM bashing thread. When VW is in trouble I hope the same people say they should be allowed to fail as well. But I seriously doubt it.
 
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Why would they invest in designing a vehicle for a market they weren't allowed in?
They were, but they didn't bother to design for local market.
 
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