GM EOS discontinued...now what for ZDDP?

Daniel J. Stern · Jul 5, 2007

I run a bunch of flat-tappet engines. Got a nasty surprise today trying to reorder GM EOS under P/N 1052367: The P/N has been discontinued and there is reportedly no replacement P/N.

Ummmm...now what? I need a replacement ZDDP additive. Don't want thickeners, seal-swellers, or anything else. Suggestions?

Thanks

98LSC32V · Jul 5, 2007

How about using an oil with a ton of ZDDP already in it such as Redline?

Pablo · Jul 5, 2007

Do you actually have proof that SL/SM oils won't work in these engines? Most of the hysteria is exactly that, and most of that yammer has no proof.

There are 5W/10W-30 HDEO's out there. You need to broaden your outlook, open your mind, maybe even consider an extended drain.

Merkava_4 · Jul 5, 2007

Quote:

Don't want thickeners, seal-swellers, or anything else. Suggestions?

Yeah, run 15w40 diesel and be done with it. Next!

Camu Mahubah · Jul 5, 2007

You should run a hdeo...

INDYMAC · Jul 5, 2007

I'm not a SM purist yet either. I don't know what GM EOS is, but you might want to try BG MOA in your Porche if you're seriously concerned about lack of wear additives in your SM oil. The VOA looks pretty stout:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=0#Post897266

INDYMAC · Jul 5, 2007

Quote:

I'm not a SM purist yet either. I don't know what GM EOS is, but you might want to try BG MOA in your Porche if you're seriously concerned about lack of wear additives in your SM oil. The VOA looks pretty stout:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=0#Post897266

Sorry. I posted this on the wrong thread. The BG product may be worth looking into though as an additive.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=0#Post897266

rat · Jul 5, 2007

We still have 14 bottles in stock where I work. If you are interested, I can check with the boss to see what kind of deal I can make for you.

LoneRanger · Jul 5, 2007

SLOB (Street Legal Oil Boost) additive has ZDDP in a base that should have neutral effect on viscosity, etc. I think it also has moly.

Merkava_4 · Jul 5, 2007

Quote:

SLOB (Street Legal Oil Boost) additive has ZDDP in a base that should have neutral effect on viscosity, etc. I think it also has moly.

Image provided by TallPaul

BrianWC · Jul 5, 2007

Quote:

SLOB (Street Legal Oil Boost) additive has ZDDP in a base that should have neutral effect on viscosity, etc. I think it also has moly.

Nope, no moly in SLOB. But a good dose of zddp IF you need it.

elric · Jul 5, 2007

Use Crane Cam Lube. Buy at any speed shop or Jegs/Summit. See my voa.

Daniel J. Stern · Jul 6, 2007

Quote:

Do you actually have proof that SL/SM oils won't work in these engines?

No, but I have an aversion to spending the $$$$ to rebuild my engines prematurely when the proof turns out to work against me, and I have several well-referenced SAE papers coming to similar conclusions about optimal ZDDP levels for long-term happiness of flat-tappet engines. With the very occasional exception, SAE papers do not tend to contain baseless hysteria. They are rigourously vetted and edited.

Quote:

There are 5W/10W-30 HDEO's out there

I imagine there are. Offhand, what are some you'd recommend I look at? No Amsoil, please (and no debate on that topic, please — you and I have already agreed to disagree on it)

Quote:

consider an extended drain.

I've been using extended drain intervals for many years with good success.

BrianWC · Jul 6, 2007

Rotella can be found in 10W30. There's also 5W40 Rotella T Synth.

ted s · Jul 11, 2007

FLAT tappet cam makers and engine builders are convinced, thats enuff 4 me.

Quote:

Do you actually have proof that SL/SM oils won't work in these engines? Most of the hysteria is exactly that, and most of that yammer has no proof.

There are 5W/10W-30 HDEO's out there. You need to broaden your outlook, open your mind, maybe even consider an extended drain.

derek244 · Jul 11, 2007

Sometimes I wonder why oil manufacturers don't just come out with a product that is SPECIFICALLY made for flat-tappet engines. Not, "Yeh, it SHOULD work", but "We flat out designed this stuff for old flat tappet engines" Everyone seems to tip-toe around the subject. Even Amsoil would not come out and give me a straight answer when I asked them. It's "I recommend" or "It should". ____, give us straight answers oil companies!!!!!!!!

Breathing now....

Ok, I do not remember oil in 1991 saying chock full of the recommended daily allowance of Zinc! Now everyone is scard including me. I stocked up on Rotella and VR1, but is it really all I need? Almost every oil manufacturer and car nameplate says oil additives are not recommended, yet we are throwing the stuff in now. I don't like it.

Now with all that ranting and crying, I feel even worse. I have a new engine I am breaking in right now. Can't use sythetic, so that's out. So Rotella T it was for the first 250 miles (with Crane additive too). Rotella T again for the next 250 miles. Now it's 10w30 VR1 for a switch up. Guess what? The engine has been developing a lifter ticking noise for most of it's break-in. I am worried we may have an issue...yikes!

Pablo · Jul 11, 2007

Because it's just not that simple..... I think some of the camshaft manufacturers are not owning up to shoddy product. SAE studies have shown it simply does not take that much ZDDP to protect........

BrianWC · Jul 11, 2007

Yep. Everyone keeps overlooking that part of the equation.

As for oils for flat tappet cams, um, have you read the website for M1 15W50?

Quote:

Mobil 1 15W-50 is also recommended for older valve train designs that may benefit from a higher level of anti-wear normally not required for newer generation vehicles. Mobil 1 15W-50 will also provide better anti-wear protection for higher valve spring tensions in certain racing engines.

That's as solid a recommendation as Exxon Mobil gives for ANYTHING!

saginawmale50 · Jul 15, 2007

I have about 100 bottles of of STP synthetic oil treatment loaded with ZDDP . I can sell you the whole lot or part of it if you can figure out how to ship it or come to Michigan to pick it up.

TallPaul · Jul 15, 2007

Quote:

I have about 100 bottles of of STP synthetic oil treatment loaded with ZDDP . I can sell you the whole lot or part of it if you can figure out how to ship it or come to Michigan to pick it up.

What is the Zinc level? Also, what is the full product name and bottle size and shape and color? Maybe there are a few still on the shelf that folks could pick up. You also may want to post this in the for sale forum at this site.

GM EOS discontinued...now what for ZDDP?

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