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GM Bailout / Oshawa Closure
- Thread starter StevieC
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Leave's a bad taste what GM is doing.
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Originally Posted by oldhp
Leave's a bad taste what GM is doing.
Yup... They have a history of screwing not only the folks on this side of the border but in the U.S. as well. Sadly it's a systemic problem of a lot of corporations today. It's no longer about balancing efficiency in operation and being a respectable employer any longer. Now it's about pure profit and greed.
It will be their own demise and other corporations like them as those they put out of work will no longer be able to afford the products they are peddling.
Leave's a bad taste what GM is doing.
Yup... They have a history of screwing not only the folks on this side of the border but in the U.S. as well. Sadly it's a systemic problem of a lot of corporations today. It's no longer about balancing efficiency in operation and being a respectable employer any longer. Now it's about pure profit and greed.
It will be their own demise and other corporations like them as those they put out of work will no longer be able to afford the products they are peddling.
Originally Posted by mrsilv04
I have two GMT800 (1999-2006) pickups. One assembled in Fort Wayne, one assembled in Oshawa.
I'd much rather have two Fort Wayne trucks. The build quality *IS* that much better.
Really? Wonder what kind of duds you got then...
Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshawa_Car_Assembly
Oshawa Car Assembly (GM Oshawa) is a major manufacturing facility in the city of Oshawa, Ontario, Canada, building various automobiles for General Motors Canada. Vehicles are primarily produced for the US and Canadian market, but they also build exports for various countries around the world, particularly South America and the Middle East. At one time, the factory was one of the largest auto manufacturing facilities in the world, with 2 car plants, a truck plant, as well as producing Harrison radiators, AC Delco batteries (for both GM and other vehicle manufacturers) and America Axle production. Since 1999, it has won more quality and productivity awards than any other GM plant The plant is part of the larger GM Autoplex.
The facility has over 10 million square feet (930,000 m²) of factory floor. It was converted to a state of the art Flexible Manufacturing facility in 2008, which involved the consolidation of two car plants under the same roof and the addition of a $1.3B paint shop which can accommodate 27 different body styles, including cars, pick up trucks and vans. Approximately 3,600 hourly and 400 salaried employees currently work at the plant, with many more engineers working at GM's Regional Engineering Center across the road .[citation needed] The hourly-rated workers are represented by their union, Unifor Local 222. In August 2017, it was rated highly by its employees in The Best Places to Work in Canada rankings by Indeed, garnering 4th spot overall, and 1st for wages and benefits.
I have two GMT800 (1999-2006) pickups. One assembled in Fort Wayne, one assembled in Oshawa.
I'd much rather have two Fort Wayne trucks. The build quality *IS* that much better.
Really? Wonder what kind of duds you got then...
Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshawa_Car_Assembly
Oshawa Car Assembly (GM Oshawa) is a major manufacturing facility in the city of Oshawa, Ontario, Canada, building various automobiles for General Motors Canada. Vehicles are primarily produced for the US and Canadian market, but they also build exports for various countries around the world, particularly South America and the Middle East. At one time, the factory was one of the largest auto manufacturing facilities in the world, with 2 car plants, a truck plant, as well as producing Harrison radiators, AC Delco batteries (for both GM and other vehicle manufacturers) and America Axle production. Since 1999, it has won more quality and productivity awards than any other GM plant The plant is part of the larger GM Autoplex.
The facility has over 10 million square feet (930,000 m²) of factory floor. It was converted to a state of the art Flexible Manufacturing facility in 2008, which involved the consolidation of two car plants under the same roof and the addition of a $1.3B paint shop which can accommodate 27 different body styles, including cars, pick up trucks and vans. Approximately 3,600 hourly and 400 salaried employees currently work at the plant, with many more engineers working at GM's Regional Engineering Center across the road .[citation needed] The hourly-rated workers are represented by their union, Unifor Local 222. In August 2017, it was rated highly by its employees in The Best Places to Work in Canada rankings by Indeed, garnering 4th spot overall, and 1st for wages and benefits.
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Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by oldhp
Leave's a bad taste what GM is doing.
Yup... They have a history of screwing not only the folks on this side of the border but in the U.S. as well. Sadly it's a systemic problem of a lot of corporations today. It's no longer about balancing efficiency in operation and being a respectable employer any longer. Now it's about pure profit and greed.
It will be their own demise and other corporations like them as those they put out of work will no longer be able to afford the products they are peddling.
Yes Steve they think its the wallet that comes first and to H with the rest of it!
Originally Posted by oldhp
Leave's a bad taste what GM is doing.
Yup... They have a history of screwing not only the folks on this side of the border but in the U.S. as well. Sadly it's a systemic problem of a lot of corporations today. It's no longer about balancing efficiency in operation and being a respectable employer any longer. Now it's about pure profit and greed.
It will be their own demise and other corporations like them as those they put out of work will no longer be able to afford the products they are peddling.
Yes Steve they think its the wallet that comes first and to H with the rest of it!
I get the efficiency aspect and I'm not saying companies shouldn't be profitable and efficient but their is also balancing it with being a respectable employer and not toying with peoples lives like they are indispensable. That really bugs me and GM has a long history with this as do other companies. And then they did a double whammy to tax payers in 08-09 I think knowing exactly what they were doing. It's a sick game and it needs to stop. I'm actually surprised that folks haven't revolted more violently to it. Not that violence is the answer because it isn't, but you would think that people would have lost it by now with their shenanigans over the decades as customers, workers and tax payers.
Anyone willingly buying a GM product now after all this should have to have their head examined as with doing business with any other company that operates in this manner is my opinion. We need more voting with our wallets to affect change and less complaining and accepting it as the new reality.
Anyone willingly buying a GM product now after all this should have to have their head examined as with doing business with any other company that operates in this manner is my opinion. We need more voting with our wallets to affect change and less complaining and accepting it as the new reality.
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Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by oldhp
Leave's a bad taste what GM is doing.
Yup... They have a history of screwing not only the folks on this side of the border but in the U.S. as well. Sadly it's a systemic problem of a lot of corporations today. It's no longer about balancing efficiency in operation and being a respectable employer any longer. Now it's about pure profit and greed.
It will be their own demise and other corporations like them as those they put out of work will no longer be able to afford the products they are peddling.
Well stated!
Originally Posted by oldhp
Leave's a bad taste what GM is doing.
Yup... They have a history of screwing not only the folks on this side of the border but in the U.S. as well. Sadly it's a systemic problem of a lot of corporations today. It's no longer about balancing efficiency in operation and being a respectable employer any longer. Now it's about pure profit and greed.
It will be their own demise and other corporations like them as those they put out of work will no longer be able to afford the products they are peddling.
Well stated!
I guess I'm way behind the curve, but GM is using the 'savings' to design self driving and electric cars?? I guess I'm too old(?) at 54 to be in their target demographic, because I have absolutely zero interest in a self driving or electric car. I didn't know that the Impala would be axed so soon when we bought ours in February. I know that CUVs etc. are all the rage now, but I though the Impala would be around a few more years. And so much for the many billions the Canadian and American governments sunk into GM in 2009.
I don't get why everyone is suprized by this or think that being bailed out has anything to do with it. Manufactures have been doing this for a long time. It is capitalism at work. Manufactures go where the profit is.
The profits could be here if they would stop setting up the market to fail. "One hand, feeds the other".
Look at what has changed in a few short decades as corporations slashed wages/benefits and then sales soon followed as more and more were underfunded and not able to participate at the same level in the economy and keep buying the same products at the same prices on the same sales cycles that were typical.
How did companies react? Slash workers, slash wages, outsource & off shore and that further compounds the problem, how do they react, the same way, what is the result? Further compounding the problem all because they refuse to give up their status quo of profits failing to realize that investing some of that profit today into workers and facilities and equipment will pay spades tomorrow.
You can't get a return on an investment without the initial investment!
This disease is rampant in corporations today and it will ultimately kill a lot of them, take down citizens financially and ultimately put their home countries in danger with exploding debt from lost tax revenues and bail-outs paid out and never recouped. Oops looks like we are too late.
SEE THE MADNESS?
We need to have a reverse tax system for corporations. The more folks you employ here and the more profits you keep here, the less tax you pay because the government would make it up on the reverse end as folks with jobs pay income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes etc. by participating fully in the economy and depend less on government assistance. This leads to economic growth which further compounds the success and stability.
This would encourage business to operate everything they can here because it means more tax savings at the end of the year versus loosing it all to other countries as they outsource and offshore and lay off folks and then we have to write them big cheques in tax subsidies / bailouts in hopes they will re-open plants and bring back some production. It also forces them to make the investment to get the benefit from the government and not take the benefit from the government in hopes they will keep their promise.
It's completely dumb the way it works today, we the citizens through the government pay for everything (i.e. bailouts / tax subsidies etc.) and get nothing but broken promises with no accountability it seems.
What's even worse is you have folks championing all of this and calling for more of these shenanigans because they are so brainwashed instead of knowing what's really going on.
Anyway... That's enough for me.
Look at what has changed in a few short decades as corporations slashed wages/benefits and then sales soon followed as more and more were underfunded and not able to participate at the same level in the economy and keep buying the same products at the same prices on the same sales cycles that were typical.
How did companies react? Slash workers, slash wages, outsource & off shore and that further compounds the problem, how do they react, the same way, what is the result? Further compounding the problem all because they refuse to give up their status quo of profits failing to realize that investing some of that profit today into workers and facilities and equipment will pay spades tomorrow.
You can't get a return on an investment without the initial investment!
This disease is rampant in corporations today and it will ultimately kill a lot of them, take down citizens financially and ultimately put their home countries in danger with exploding debt from lost tax revenues and bail-outs paid out and never recouped. Oops looks like we are too late.
SEE THE MADNESS?
We need to have a reverse tax system for corporations. The more folks you employ here and the more profits you keep here, the less tax you pay because the government would make it up on the reverse end as folks with jobs pay income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes etc. by participating fully in the economy and depend less on government assistance. This leads to economic growth which further compounds the success and stability.
This would encourage business to operate everything they can here because it means more tax savings at the end of the year versus loosing it all to other countries as they outsource and offshore and lay off folks and then we have to write them big cheques in tax subsidies / bailouts in hopes they will re-open plants and bring back some production. It also forces them to make the investment to get the benefit from the government and not take the benefit from the government in hopes they will keep their promise.
It's completely dumb the way it works today, we the citizens through the government pay for everything (i.e. bailouts / tax subsidies etc.) and get nothing but broken promises with no accountability it seems.
What's even worse is you have folks championing all of this and calling for more of these shenanigans because they are so brainwashed instead of knowing what's really going on.
Anyway... That's enough for me.
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GM is doing what they need to do so they remain competitive and are prepared for the future. Keeping underutilized plants and producing cars no one wanted is what got them in trouble before.
GM can do no right with some people. The same people that do nothing but slam GM are now complaining because the cars they constantly bashed aren't selling and the plants that produce them need to close because no one is buying the cars they repeatedly told people not to buy aren't selling.
GM can do no right with some people. The same people that do nothing but slam GM are now complaining because the cars they constantly bashed aren't selling and the plants that produce them need to close because no one is buying the cars they repeatedly told people not to buy aren't selling.
Where are the plant closures, restructuring and lay-offs over the decades for Toyota as another example? Where are the massive bail-outs that GM took over the decades compared to other companies like Toyota. Heck how was Toyota able to steal this market share from them and other auto-makers if they were doing what they should have been?
I'm only using Toyota as an example, I'm not saying they don't have their problems... But just as a comparison. Please don't take it the wrong way.
Funny how GM has been bankrupt one minute, take a pile of cash, profitable the next, and then slashing jobs and closing production when they have made billions in profits there after and funny how they have a history of doing this a couple of times. It's them being true to their character, they knew what they were doing and have no regard for their workers, customers, or the citizens that bailed them out and how do they repay folks? PINK SLIPS in the name of "restructuring". Hmmm seems to me that your billions in profit should have had strings attached and worked just fine for the billions in profits you made since our help, the citizens time and time again.
Sorry but this crap doesn't fly from them or any other business that operates this way. PERIOD.
I'm only using Toyota as an example, I'm not saying they don't have their problems... But just as a comparison. Please don't take it the wrong way.
Funny how GM has been bankrupt one minute, take a pile of cash, profitable the next, and then slashing jobs and closing production when they have made billions in profits there after and funny how they have a history of doing this a couple of times. It's them being true to their character, they knew what they were doing and have no regard for their workers, customers, or the citizens that bailed them out and how do they repay folks? PINK SLIPS in the name of "restructuring". Hmmm seems to me that your billions in profit should have had strings attached and worked just fine for the billions in profits you made since our help, the citizens time and time again.
Sorry but this crap doesn't fly from them or any other business that operates this way. PERIOD.
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Originally Posted by StevieC
It's completely dumb the way it works today, we the citizens through the government pay for everything (i.e. bailouts / tax subsidies etc.) and get nothing but broken promises with no accountability it seems.
]
Maybe you are starting to get it! They can't be trusted with money and with growth becomes wasteful and self serving. Keep the money out of their hands and limit how what they have is spent.
It's completely dumb the way it works today, we the citizens through the government pay for everything (i.e. bailouts / tax subsidies etc.) and get nothing but broken promises with no accountability it seems.
]
Maybe you are starting to get it! They can't be trusted with money and with growth becomes wasteful and self serving. Keep the money out of their hands and limit how what they have is spent.
Night all... 12:59am here.
The sad thing is that our "system" has only one resolution to throw at this problem: Hand the big corporations a load of cash, and hope they do the right thing. This is a fallacy, because the rules of capitalism basically state to take the money and weasel out of any and all expectations.
This latest move is one I actually do not 100% disagree with. I'd rather see GM do this and stuff cash in their pockets than go back to failing and requiring another taxpayer cash injection. But it goes to show how pathetic GM is these days that this is the best we can expect from them.
GM has not been a financial asset to this nation a long long time.
This latest move is one I actually do not 100% disagree with. I'd rather see GM do this and stuff cash in their pockets than go back to failing and requiring another taxpayer cash injection. But it goes to show how pathetic GM is these days that this is the best we can expect from them.
GM has not been a financial asset to this nation a long long time.
I think GM could have tried a last ditch effort on specific models to save them. Offer a warranty exclusive to specific models like a 10 year/125K mile bumper to bumper warranty on the cars affected by the plants. Minus brake pads, wiper blades and the battery.
Long before the 'bailout' GM wanted to file bankruptcy. But there was a deal made in Washington. One major factor was that the court could force the UAW to renegotiate the massive benefits $ GM was paying every month.
Originally Posted by dishdude
GM is doing what they need to do so they remain competitive and are prepared for the future. Keeping underutilized plants and producing cars no one wanted is what got them in trouble before.
GM can do no right with some people. The same people that do nothing but slam GM are now complaining because the cars they constantly bashed aren't selling and the plants that produce them need to close because no one is buying the cars they repeatedly told people not to buy aren't selling.
Point(s) well taken here. The OP is a long time GM basher on bitog in that ilk. And if memory serves banned at least once for repeatedly doing so along the same or similar line as topic.
And while this post in the "humor" section, 'IMO' humor or comedic value not the intention.
As point of reference, not a GM owner. I'm posting agreement with another member points and to that end providing context.
GM is doing what they need to do so they remain competitive and are prepared for the future. Keeping underutilized plants and producing cars no one wanted is what got them in trouble before.
GM can do no right with some people. The same people that do nothing but slam GM are now complaining because the cars they constantly bashed aren't selling and the plants that produce them need to close because no one is buying the cars they repeatedly told people not to buy aren't selling.
Point(s) well taken here. The OP is a long time GM basher on bitog in that ilk. And if memory serves banned at least once for repeatedly doing so along the same or similar line as topic.
And while this post in the "humor" section, 'IMO' humor or comedic value not the intention.
As point of reference, not a GM owner. I'm posting agreement with another member points and to that end providing context.
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