GM: 14 plants to close by 2011

[BrianWC]

There's nothing wrong with a no haggle price as long as there's no giant dealer markup. To a lot of people, myself included, buying a new car ranks right up there with a root canal. I think there was a missed opportunity with the Aurora, myself. I remember my MIL really wanted one back when they first came out. The price was crazy for what you got, though. She got a very well optioned Town Car for $4k less.

 

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2


Well, Norfolk Southern is doing OK, right? CSX was taken over by them last, right?

What is your take in the cliffs notes style? Has the mighty Pennsylvania Railroad come full circle into something decent in Norfolk Southern, or are things on a permanent decline to failure again?


The decline of auto manufacturing has some analogy to that of the big eastern railroads. At its zenith, the PRR's operating budget was bigger than the US Government's. They were also massive economic titans that employed hundreds of thousands with enormous physical assets whose death spiral occurred slowly over decades. It was an ugly, painful process. By the end, the PC couldn't even maintain the roadbeds. The whole thing was on the verge of seizure. The government eventually quasi-nationalized the entire mess to prevent a total transport collapse. It then took decades to work it out. It cost the taxpayers billions. That industry, while much healthier today, is far from the gilded juggernaut it was during its golden era. There are still faded, run down monuments to the great PRR littered all around here. But it is back in private hands (mostly), and is a sustainable model.

When you have high employment sectors with strategic defense value, the government tends to step in and prop them up during their decline from dominance. It was impossible for US manufacturers to keep acting like it was 1960. There are too many competitors and other market forces at work now. I believe we're witnessing a managed downsizing of the sector, just like we did with the railroads 40 years ago. I don't think GM will ever have 50% market share or employ 500,000 again. But I'm not so sure that's such a bad thing for America. I'm sure GM will eventually recover in some form after the Gov't throws enough money at it, but never as it once was. And it will take longer than people think. If we must burn tax dollars, I'd rather see them go to domestic industry than to Iraqis and Afghans . Still, we should focus on encouraging/developing the next great economic sector. That's where the new jobs and economic growth will be found.

If there's any irony to this, the railroads may play a larger role in a greener, more energy efficient economy going forward.

I like the cliffs notes version better.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette

If you haven't seen Michael Moore's movie 'Roger & Me' about the GM plants shutting down and the financial havoc it caused.... PLEASE watch it.


A Michael Moore film about trickle-down economics?

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

Originally Posted By: VNTS

I dont feel sorry for Saturn, it was an arrogant business plan based on a sub standard over priced product...every person I knew who bought one was happy at first until they realized they paid way too much and the car wasnt really that good...Basically they were so arrogant you pay sticker price for a small car.


Now now. Saturn had a VERY high repeat customer rate the first 3-5 years, when the product was fresh and reasonably priced.
$7,995 + A/C & tape player brought the total to $9,300 for a brand new 91 Saturn SL 5speed for me in 1991. How is THAT over priced?

Saturn priced their cars to the market the first half dozen years or so, not too low, not too high. How is THAT arrogant?

Originally Posted By: VNTS

Money should have been invested into Chevy.

You must have been an owner of a Chevy, Cadillac or Buick dealer, right? I wish I had a nickel for every time I heard that, I'd be able to pay the national debt! For what? Another V8 to be stuffed into the Camaro platform? Another boring Cimarron makeover?

What killed Saturn was GM-ifying it around 1995-1996. It was just another lost division rather one that had soul and offered a true import-fighter. Once the late 90's rolled around, Saturn's soul was ripped from itself and was seen as just another GM division by many.

 

[Volvohead]

What was worse than what GM eventually did to Saturn is what GM did to create it. They starved Olds to death. It was their last carline golden goose. In the 1980s, that division carried GM, and Cutlasses were parked on every street. Had they not killed it, I would have rather seen Olds survive over Buick today.

Given what they did to Olds in the 90s, what they later did to Saturn makes sense. No long-term strategic plan was ever adhered to after 1975.

GM is a case of multi-generational, institutional mismanagement spanning 35+ years. The titanic system Sloan built proved its own undoing once the market fundamentals changed.

I'm still waiting to hear a meaningful strategic plan to revitalize the company. Just saying were going to be a "New GM" and "better" is not enough. What's the plan?

 

[BrianWC]

You're correct on Olds. I remember in the 80's Cutlass Cieras were a dime a dozen. The Calais was popular,too. Then they replaced it with that horrible Achieva. No offense to anyone who owned one. I personally only knew one person who did... I remember the Cutlass Supreme being fairly popular but I also remember that after a few years, everyone I saw seemed to have trim pieces falling off.