Global Climate Change scam

[keith]

Let's add this up. Very cold and snowy winter last year. Very mild summer. Very cold winter this year:

Global Warming goes MIA

Now you know why the fact averse warmists are starting to talk about "global climate change" rather than "global warming". The new scam is to blame the weather, ANY weather, on humans and the prescribed cure is to abandon capitalism. Yup, the cold spell is extreme weather, er, global climate change, caused by capitalism, LOL.

On the other hand, if the sun continues to warm, the earth will be on a warming trend and humans will not be able to stop it. The sun doesn't have a thermostat we can set back a little.

Keith.

 

[Al]

The Ice Caps have melted by 10% in the last decade.
"The polar ice cap is melting at an alarming rate due to global warming, according to NASA scientists, with satellite images showing the ice cap has been shrinking by 10 percent per decade over the past quarter century."

iafrica.com


Everyone always posts the Global-Warming-BaaHumbug stuff the second or third day of a cold snap. Look at last week-there was absolutely no cold air at all in the U.S. -anywhere. I didn't hear you posting then

[ January 11, 2004, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Al ]

 

[Shannow]

Certainly not cooler and wetter where I live.

BTW, I see nothing in that article to debunk man assisted climate change (the title that you gave the link).

[ January 11, 2004, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: Shannow ]

 

[Titanium_Alloy]

keith, with all due respect. what gives you the right to doubt the scientific results?

Are you a scientist? I guess no. If you and some people like you stating that global warming is BS, were you in fact scientists I would probably listen to your "theories." Those people are professionals with a lot of experience and education who have collected, computed, and approximated successfully thousands if not millions data points. This is not just a single person speaking but rather a whole scientific community in a number of different fields has confirmed this warming trend from astronomers to marine biologists to eco scientists, and etc.
Some minority of scientists, usually closely related to or/and funded by energy corporations, have in fact stated opinion that nothing changes or "we can't determine the real cause."
Global warming, as all other natural processes, does not depend on your acceptance or understanding of it. So your opinion, wherever you got it, about anti-democracy and anti-capitalist movement to prevent global warming doesn’t count.
So please, if you want to surprise us with your latest proof against global warming with one week weather forecast ... well whatever you need to tell yourself honey. If you or someone else is willing to provide some kind of reasonable proof I would gladly listen to what you have to say.

Regards,

[ January 11, 2004, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: Titanium_Alloy ]

 

[Al]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Titanium_Alloy:
keith, If you or someone else is willing to provide some kind of reasonable proof I would gladly listen to what you have to say.

Regards,

---

Wait a mnute Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh say only the Left Wing Environmental Wackos believe in Global warming.

But (to hedge his bet) Sean says that ifffff global warming is occurring (which it isnt) its a good thing bc it will give the world better sweeter wine

 

[Pablo]

First of all, there are some (many) reputable scientists that say (basically) IF the planet is getting warmer (some government grant money science says it is), no one has a 100% lock as to "why? and how?"

Second, data such the above posted, winter is here, and the ultracold winter in way eastern Europe/central Russia, dipping further south than usual (coldest since 1943) is such a tiny snapshot as are recent heat records that statistically it's a bit meaningless.

The data used to bolster global warming should always be scrutinized. Much of it has been found to not be as accurate as first thought, due mainly to faulty assumptions by these so called bright thinkers...yet we teach these things as facts in our schools.

I think we should always take reasonable steps to reduce emissions and reduce waste (waste heat included). There is much to be gained by this....but what some people will grab onto for some way of social control is quite shameful. We should have world agreements to reduce pollution, no doubt, but when those turn so political and the sharp stick is unnecessarily pointed at us, again using assumptions....well we should walk.

So what I'm saying is: I think the jury is still out on global warming and what exactly we should do about it...in the mean time we should reduce pollution because it's just the smart thing to do, not because we think we can cool or control the planet.

 

[ALS]

Opinions are like ***holes

as they say everyone has one. But anyway in the last few years more and more real scientists are starting to question the data that the Far Left Wacko Environmentalists have been using. One was Bjorn Lomberg a statistician and past member of Green Peace. That alone should disqualify him as a right wing puppet of Rush Limbaugh.
The Australian

What is amazing is the first Earth Day in 1969 the environmental weenies were belly aching about how we were going to bring on a New Ice Age with all our industrialization. Second the new info that is being learned about the Sun is collaborating that we are about 11 years past a new sunspot cycle. When we enter this cycle the earth should see a cooling trend.
I have read studies that were done through core samples that show during the middle ages, summers were a lot warmer then than they are today. On the flip side there was a 90 year period in the 1600's and early 1700's that England and Europe really never had a Summer and their Winters were brutal. The Earth has gone through these cycles since the beginning of time. We are looking at what 100 years of spotty data and deciding that we are doomed. I would look at the history of this planet through core samples of sediment and ice cores before I would start jumping to the conclusions of some far left anti American Environmentalists hollering the sky is falling.
The other thing that is amazing is when you run any of these environmental weenies computer models in reverse they never seem to come even close to the historical data of even a short period of 5, 10, 20 years ago.

 

[Shannow]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pablo:
First of all, there are some (many) reputable scientists that say (basically) IF the planet is getting warmer (some government grant money science says it is), no one has a 100% lock as to "why? and how?"

Second, data such the above posted, winter is here, and the ultracold winter in way eastern Europe/central Russia, dipping further south than usual (coldest since 1943) is such a tiny snapshot as are recent heat records that statistically it's a bit meaningless.

The data used to bolster global warming should always be scrutinized. Much of it has been found to not be as accurate as first thought, due mainly to faulty assumptions by these so called bright thinkers...yet we teach these things as facts in our schools.

I think we should always take reasonable steps to reduce emissions and reduce waste (waste heat included). There is much to be gained by this....but what some people will grab onto for some way of social control is quite shameful. We should have world agreements to reduce pollution, no doubt, but when those turn so political and the sharp stick is unnecessarily pointed at us, again using assumptions....well we should walk.

So what I'm saying is: I think the jury is still out on global warming and what exactly we should do about it...in the mean time we should reduce pollution because it's just the smart thing to do, not because we think we can cool or control the planet.

---

Pablo,
excellent post.

 

[medic]

Okay, I'm not gonna call anyone a liar.

My observations - we haven't broken any records in my area with this weird weather. I think we may have come close or matched one on Friday night for the low temp of the day.

Yes, the polar ice caps are melting. Is this normal? We don't know because none of us were here prior to the last ice age. There is recent evidence that shows (from taking ice samples out of these polar ice caps) that the CO2 level has gone up and down irregularly for many years prior to the invention of the internal combustion engine. This can be traced back to the begining of human existence. Is our current civilization responsible for this? NO. Is there elevated CO2 in our air - probably. Is it due to my car & motorcycle or the cutting of the rain forests? Nobody knows.

 

[Propflux01]

I wonder how to explain the record heat days in the mid 1800's ( when records were first started), or the Dust-bowl era temps? Global warming brought on by vehicles? Cows? Perhaps 'global warming' is caused by all the pavement laid down in the last 100 years (it IS always warmer in the city then in the suburbs)? I am no scientist, Don't claim to be, but I do, out of common sense, for which I do not need a college degree to have, question some of these scientist who have supposedly researched this stuff, but yet cannot explain why...So then I ask...Are we all gonna die or not??

 

[medic]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tim H.:
So then I ask...Are we all gonna die or not??

---

YES, the question is - WHEN? Everybody IS going to die.

Oh, and don't forget about the super-nova black hole at the center of the milky way. And, the sun is going to expand - killing all life on earth and then it is going to go out for good.

I'm not gonna say that there isn't a problem, but there are some things that we just cannot control. The human race is nothing but a big control freak that needs to be slapped in the face to told to calm down and just deal with what you have be dealt. We have tried to control the earth and in turn have ended up killing it. We introduce a species to control another, and then another to control the one we introduced. It is a big vicious circle. We need to just leave nature alone and let it be nature. Some of these "do gooders" are doing more harm than good. We're always trying to fix things that aren't broken. Would we be trying to keep the dinosaurs from becoming extinct if they were still here - mankind had nothing to do with them, it's all nature. Humans aren't to blame for everything.

Oh, and I don't wanna thing about all of the government grants that these scientists are recieving

.

Sorry, I just had to let a bit of steam off. I feel much better now

.

 

[sprintman]

Just had hottest period for decades and no sign of it abating. Worst drought ever and we have been on Stsge III water restrictions for months. Somethings sure going on.

s

 

[Pablo]

The Sahara became a desert with no help at all from man.

Close to the equator, things get warm. The lucky areas have moisture....yet man complains about the humidity.

Locally I watch the rainfall and temp means. Some years we are below, some years we are above it....but mostly I complain when I'm freezing my petunias off. And Dec was much colder than the mean. The nice thing about that: It was like 48°F today and it felt like the tropics.

 

[sprintman]

Yeah somwhere here had 48 the other day!

 

[Toy4x4]

If any of this means Phoenix will soon be cooler in the summer, then I'm for it.

 

[MarkC]

The thing you must keep in mind is that it's GLOBAL warming, meaning the average temp for the entire world rises somewhat. That doesn't mean everyplace will get warmer, in fact, some will get cooler, some will stay the same. The mean temp is what rises. Another thing that's rising is sea level.
Man-made or not, better llok into it, and as Pablo posted earlier, reducing emissions is good for everybody anyway.

 

[jsharp]

So far what I've see tells me the whole global warming scare is junk science. Some of the same people who were predicting a new ice age in the 70's are now the biggest proponents of global warming.

Forget that though. Ask yourself, does anything you've seen pass the common sense test? After spending billions of $$ over many years we still can't predict the weather 3 days into the future with better than 50% accuracy.

Yet somehow, using models at least as questionable as those we use to predict weather, we think we can predict climate change over a millenia with a snapshot of a few decades as our only data.

Calling global warming "fact" is disengenuous in the extreme...

 

[XS650]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jsharp:
Some of the same people who were predicting a new ice age in the 70's are now the biggest proponents of global warming.

---

Name three of them.

[ January 14, 2004, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: XS650 ]

 

[Dan4510]

Here's three:
UCLA historian Lynn White, Jr
Dr Stephen Schneider
Schneider S. & Rasool S., "Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide and Aerosols - Effects of Large Increases on Global Climate", Science, vol.173, 9 July 1971, p.138-141

reprint of the article:

http://www.john-daly.com/schneidr.htm

And

Ponte, Lowell. "The Cooling", Prentice Hall, N.J., USA, 1976), in which the author claimed that the climatic cooling from 1940 to the 1970s was but the precursor to the main event - the coming Ice Age.


***************************************


Check out this heavily footnoted article from 2002.

the ice caps are actually growing, not getting smaller. IF they had gotten smaller by the 1/3 or so touted, many coastal cities would have already flooded. Havent heard news of that happening, and you can bet if Barbara Streisand had that happen to her beachfront property, she would be screaming about it and asking for a government handout to fix her problem.

http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA388.html

Dan

ps: here's some more:

http://www.pvbr.com/Issue_1/global.htm
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/1/16/163043.shtml
http://www.techcentralstation.com/111903B.html

My final comment: Global warming is a belief system. Just because one believes fervently does not make a reality exist that does not exist.

[ January 14, 2004, 02:11 AM: Message edited by: Dan4510 ]

 

[Shannow]

Dan,
how are the Glaciers looking up North ?

and BTW, the desire for something not to be (or at least reflect) the truth does not make it an untruth, either.

[ January 14, 2004, 03:41 AM: Message edited by: Shannow ]