10 miles more per gallon? At 65 mph, I am easily getting 53-55 mpg. At 70 mph, I get 51.2 mpg, at 80 mph I am getting 49 mpg. Yes, diesel is about 20% more expensive than gasoline where I live but I'm still getting 300% better fuel economy than the SUV my TDI replaced.
Glad I didn't buy the diesel VW.
- Thread starter michaelc80
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Well the fuel is getting better, and will continue to get better.
As for your other complaints, I will defer to a Honda marketing video, marketing their TDI engine:
http://multimedia.honda-eu.com/diesel/ad.zip
Pretty cute, eh! I think the literature on the new Honda TDI engine shows it to be somewhat more efficient and less maintenance-intensive (no timing belt, for instance, my major complaint about the VW TDI) than its VW TDI counterpart.
JHZR2
Staff member
After my 83 MB 300d got smashed (wonderful car it still is
), I was thinking of getting a jetta, as the passat tdi was just hitting the streets, and was available in AT only, and I wanted to get a new car, as I dont have the time to devote to restoring another MB, just to get $$$screwed over like I am now on my MB, due to the uninsured driver garbage...
Anyway, I went to the dealer... this was early summer 2004. Well, talking to three dealers, nobody wanted to give me a deal compared to MSRP, whether paying cash or financing, and if I did finance, they all wanted VW's top rate... BLAH. Not worth it for a car that I knew had a hgigh probability of having electrical and chassis issues, based upon friends' experiences with late model Jettas.
The MPG was nice, but I bought a brand new saab for barely any more than the VW Jetta diesel, and I can get close to 40 MPG on smooth highway cruising. Not too bad considering that the new jetta is only rated 42 MPG highway!
JMH
Anyway, I went to the dealer... this was early summer 2004. Well, talking to three dealers, nobody wanted to give me a deal compared to MSRP, whether paying cash or financing, and if I did finance, they all wanted VW's top rate... BLAH. Not worth it for a car that I knew had a hgigh probability of having electrical and chassis issues, based upon friends' experiences with late model Jettas.
The MPG was nice, but I bought a brand new saab for barely any more than the VW Jetta diesel, and I can get close to 40 MPG on smooth highway cruising. Not too bad considering that the new jetta is only rated 42 MPG highway!
JMH
Just an update-the Casey's on South Duff in Ames, IA is $2.05 per gallon as of 7:40AM this morning (Thursday).
The price of fuel would have been the least of your worries, had you bought the VW...but that is
A few years back when I bought my new TDI, diesel was 91 cents/gallon & gas was $1.53/gallon. I was loving it! Last year I wasn't so happy, dumping $1.98/gallon fuel into it, when gas was only $1.60/gal. Luckily I got rid of it, before the $3.30/gal price hit the Indy area
.
A few years back when I bought my new TDI, diesel was 91 cents/gallon & gas was $1.53/gallon. I was loving it! Last year I wasn't so happy, dumping $1.98/gallon fuel into it, when gas was only $1.60/gal. Luckily I got rid of it, before the $3.30/gal price hit the Indy area
Locally, 87 octane is averaging 2.35 a gallon, with lows running in the low 2.20's a gallon. Note that this is all 10% ethanol blends, as required by state law.
Diesel is running 3.19 ish, with some places running over 3.30 a gallon. A full dollar difference makes it much harder to recoup milage benefits!
20% biodiesel (B20) is available at some local co-ops for 2.80ish, which makes that look more attractive (except for the cold weather issues that looming soon!).
Diesel is running 3.19 ish, with some places running over 3.30 a gallon. A full dollar difference makes it much harder to recoup milage benefits!
20% biodiesel (B20) is available at some local co-ops for 2.80ish, which makes that look more attractive (except for the cold weather issues that looming soon!).
Any idea how the biodiesel handles the extreme cold? I haven't had a chance to look into it yet, and I know around here (like Minnesota I'm sure) there is a big push for biodiesel.
JHZR2
Staff member
In a B20 cut, youll be OK for most anything that stanard #2 can take.
Cut it with some #1 or some kerosine, and itll be better.
One company makes a de-gel especially for biofuels.
Its not like its WVO that has a motor-oil like viscosity increase...
JMH
Cut it with some #1 or some kerosine, and itll be better.
One company makes a de-gel especially for biofuels.
Its not like its WVO that has a motor-oil like viscosity increase...
JMH
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You actually need to figure your cost per mile, not the cost per gallon when looking at things like fuel price and fuel economy.
Example:
15 gallon of diesel @ 3.259= $48.89
15 gallon of gas @ 2.509= $37.64
diesel @ 50 MPG = 750 miles on 15 gallons
gas @ 30 MPG = 450 miles on 15 gallons
Which vehicle costs the least per mile with regard to fuel? The diesel of course.
This is a huge parity between diesel and gasoline prices but this is the exact situation I am in at my household. It's still less expensive for me to drive my TDI than it is for my wife to drive her gasser BMW with it's impressive 30 MPG.
Plus, the TDI Golf is a complete blast to drive.
Example:
15 gallon of diesel @ 3.259= $48.89
15 gallon of gas @ 2.509= $37.64
diesel @ 50 MPG = 750 miles on 15 gallons
gas @ 30 MPG = 450 miles on 15 gallons
Which vehicle costs the least per mile with regard to fuel? The diesel of course.
This is a huge parity between diesel and gasoline prices but this is the exact situation I am in at my household. It's still less expensive for me to drive my TDI than it is for my wife to drive her gasser BMW with it's impressive 30 MPG.
Plus, the TDI Golf is a complete blast to drive.
I've got a paper from a fleet test that was conducted on a plowing fleet in the Twin Cities. Several vehicles were run using B20 over the winter months. They didn't have any problems, but they did use a cold weather fuel additive from Schaeffers.
Interestingly, they also tested the fuel properties, such as cloud point, pour point, and cold filter plugging point. The tests clearly showed that the additive was able to create a B20 fuel that had properties closer to a 50% No.2 50% No. 1 Blend (Typical for winter usage here). Otherwise, the 20% BioDiesel/40% No.2/40%No.1 Blend had its pour point reduced from -60 F to -15 F, and the cold filter plugging temperature went from -13 to -4 F. The additive was able to move those to -45 F and -14 F, similar to the 50/50 blend.
So, with a little additive work, a comparable fuel can be had, but then you must factor in the cost of the additive too.
Interestingly, they also tested the fuel properties, such as cloud point, pour point, and cold filter plugging point. The tests clearly showed that the additive was able to create a B20 fuel that had properties closer to a 50% No.2 50% No. 1 Blend (Typical for winter usage here). Otherwise, the 20% BioDiesel/40% No.2/40%No.1 Blend had its pour point reduced from -60 F to -15 F, and the cold filter plugging temperature went from -13 to -4 F. The additive was able to move those to -45 F and -14 F, similar to the 50/50 blend.
So, with a little additive work, a comparable fuel can be had, but then you must factor in the cost of the additive too.
Let's not stop there, which is cheaper to drive, a new VW TDI diesel, or my 1994 Geo Prizm I paid $2500 for two years ago.
Gotta figure total costs into the equation.
I've driven the Geo for over 30 months now, so I have lots of data.
Total cost/mile for buying, operating, repairing, maintaining, licensing and insuring this car is:
$0.138/mile
I've driven 65254 miles since 4/10/2003 and spent $9005.07
I'm not sure that the payments on a Jetta or Golf over 30 months are much less than that, let alone fuel, taxes, insurance, license, etc.
A $20K car over 60 months at 0% interest is 333.33/month, if you are paying any interest, your costs go up. If you made a big down payment, add that into your monthly costs.
You get the drill. Wanna save money on driving, start with the most expensive part, the vehicle.
T
Me too; my Mazda3 is much quicker!
Anyway . . .
Won't the diesel prices drop back down in the near future?
I thought my '87 Grand Am was cheap to drive, but you've got me beat by a lot, javacontour. That car cost me about cdn$0.20/mile over 5 years (81,000 miles).
mngopher
"but then you must factor in the cost of the additive too. "
2 cents to 3 cents per gallon. The increase in fuel economy more than pays for it.
http://www.schaefferoil.com/datapdf/137AND.pdf
"but then you must factor in the cost of the additive too. "
2 cents to 3 cents per gallon. The increase in fuel economy more than pays for it.
http://www.schaefferoil.com/datapdf/137AND.pdf
what makes you say this?
what's the address? I'm coming out to fill up.
what year was it that the gov't was mandating the lower xx% sulphur limit on diesel? When that happens, the cost of diesel will go up just based on the increased refining cost. Introduce more diesel powered cars in the market = more demand = higher diesel fuel price.
Ethanol is not the way to go, see thread titled why ethanol sucks. It reduces power, reduces fuel economy, and has no effect on emissions. And it costs more to produce.
"The refineries are skipping the de-sulphurization process and shipping it to the NE to gouge us. Happens every yr about this time. "
andy, i love conspiracy buffs, they're so much fun to slap around.
Refineries are switching to home heating oil about now. So you don't fweeze your widdle snookums come Januwary.
andy, i love conspiracy buffs, they're so much fun to slap around.
Refineries are switching to home heating oil about now. So you don't fweeze your widdle snookums come Januwary.
JHZR2
Staff member
I would have to believe that they DO turn off the HDS step for of road and heating fuel, especially so now, since road fuel still has relatvely high sulfur content...
Shipping it to the NE? well, if thats where its needed, why not?
JMH
Shipping it to the NE? well, if thats where its needed, why not?
JMH
From what I've seen of the new TDI's, EPA ratings have dropped into the 40's, which is where I got my estimate.
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Javacontour, let us know when you have to replace the cylinder head on your car. It's only a matter of time.
I've changed four of them so far and they were all under 120,000 miles of service.
Please don't take my statement in a bad way. It's just that there are so many factors involved in figuring cost and this thread had centered on fuel costs.
I am actually a very big fan of the Metro, especially the 'small block' 1.0 liter. But they do have this one particular mechanical problem that I've come to see repeatedly.
[ October 21, 2005, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: FowVay ]
I've changed four of them so far and they were all under 120,000 miles of service.
Please don't take my statement in a bad way. It's just that there are so many factors involved in figuring cost and this thread had centered on fuel costs.
I am actually a very big fan of the Metro, especially the 'small block' 1.0 liter. But they do have this one particular mechanical problem that I've come to see repeatedly.
[ October 21, 2005, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: FowVay ]
Well, I'm at 171K miles. I haven't read too much about changing cylinder heads on Toyota 4A-GE engines, but I suppose a few do.
(P.S. I did say Geo Prizm, right, the Toyota Corolla clone with GM resale values, LOL)
I have all the service records from the previous owner, the only major failure was the alternator.
T
(P.S. I did say Geo Prizm, right, the Toyota Corolla clone with GM resale values, LOL)
I have all the service records from the previous owner, the only major failure was the alternator.
T
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