German Castrol 0W-30 has let me down!!!

[Bowser]

I've been doing a 50/50 mix of green and gold but showing a low average of 2 ppm lead in two reports (10,000 miles) taken from my 2001 5.3 Chevy Silverado. All wear metals were well below universal averages.

I need to test my girl friends '03 BMW which has seen only GC gold in the last two years with 6K intervals.

Bowser

 

[dkryan]

2002MaximaSE:

As the owner of a 2001 I30 (VQ30DE), allow me to say this: stay calm! I understand you ain't happy, but I've been battling the same problem for over two years.

My lead went from 17 to 37 to 6 to 28 to 22. When the lead went down to 6, the copper went up. That was the Auto-Rx rinse phase and it did not concern me too much.

Some general thoughts:

It is my personal opinion that M-1 isn't the best oil for this engine (VQ30/35DE), even the EP stuff.

FP60 did not cause the lead spike. I had the spike well before using FP60 (I now use FP Plus).

This engine series seems to have softer bearing material which is more subsceptible to higher wear for a variety of reasons, including higher dirt levels (though your silicon level looked good), overtreating with certain fuel additives (including the much heralded Techron), fuel dilution weakening the oil's add pack, and probably a few more that Terry Dyson could give you better insight into than I can.

My last two lead readings were 5k mile runs of green GC. The lowest lead level was the Pennzoil dino 5w30 rinse phase.

I noticed it's been almost 37k miles since your last UOA. How do you know your lead level hadn't climbed several OCIs ago while still using M-1?

With your copper, iron, and silicon numbers at a reasonable level for now, I'd try and pull a sample around 3,500 miles and use the Dyson premium service. It's worth every dime.

If you haven't changed your PCV valve, now would be a good time. Don't skimp on this one, get an OEM one.

I changed my 105k mile plugs at 57k miles and they looked good; no issues there. You might want to consider using Auto-Rx for at least one "wash and rinse" phase. I highly recommend dino for both phases, and I'd stretch my rinse phase out to about 2,500-3,000 miles. Just about any dino that's SM rated will work well for both phases.

I'd also switch to FP plus. Consider using Valvoline Maxlife full syn, either 5w30 or 10w30. I'm using the SL version in my I30 and will have a report in December.

As long as the copper and iron numbers don't begin to climb, I believe you'll be okay.

 

[2002 Maxima SE]

Thanks all for the input. Couple of questions.

1)PCV was changed at 30k. I do have an oil/water separator (filter removed) inline to deal with some blowby. I catch about 4/5 of a B/S container per year. How does a PCV affect lead levels? I thought the purpose was to maintain pressure as a clogged one could blow out a seal.

2)Fuel dilutions affect on lead levels, could this be due to diluted fuel changing the viscosity thus affecting bearing lubrication. If so, glxpassat pointed out that viscosity was at 11.42 cst.

 

[glxpassat]

I believe the problem is not the viscosity drop, though I could be wrong. The fact that there are a high percentage of these detergents from the gas in the oil and they are in the oil for so long may be the problem. This may be a reason to forget about top tier gas and go for the cheapest available!

If the pcv is clogged, the oil contamination will be much worse because the blow-by gases are not being sucked out of the crankcase fast enough.

 

[dkryan]

2002 Maxima SE:

I'm real curious as to your oil/water separator for blowby. What led you to believe blowby was an issue to begin with? How and what type separator did you install?

I can't answer your question on the PCV valve. Hopefully, someone more knowledgeable can.

I believe diluted fuel will effect bearing lubrication. Your point is well taken as to the cst. Your glashpoint and viscosity both look good. However, this is a Blackstone report, and while I've used them several times and I have no problem with them, if you're that concerned, Terry Dyson's analysis and interpretation may reveal something beyond the Blackstone numbers.

Right now, lead appears to be your only issue. It COULD be a particle streak. Here's hoping. Again, I'd run your current fill for about 3-3.5k miles and sample it through Dyson premium service. You'll know where you stand at that point and Terry can point you in the right direction as to viscosity and type of oil to use, should issues be present.

What type of air filter are you using (curiosity more than anything)?

Please post your next UOA so we can see more detailed numbers, should you choose to use Terry. Good luck.

 

[2002 Maxima SE]

dkryan,

I get a ping around 2000 to 2200 rpm, very common on the Maxima with the 3.5. I tried several things and found that the separator takes care of 90% of the problem. The theory was that blowby oil (which will lower octane) was the culprit. PCV gasses are at their highest during low RPM conditions. The separator is this one:

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stor...ocStoreNum=8125

I've sent my report off to Dyson for futher analysis. I'm using a Wix filter.

 

[dkryan]

Thanks!

 

[glxpassat]

I wonder if running high octane gas could increase fuel dilution? The higher the octane, the slower it burns. If the fuel burned quicker, it might have less chance of getting past the rings.

 

[dkryan]

The dealer has always claimed that running less than 91 octane in the VQ30/35 series resulted in significant EGR valve problems.

 

[Mokanic]

Quote:

---

The dealer has always claimed that running less than 91 octane in the VQ30/35 series resulted in significant EGR valve problems.

---

The VQ30 had significant EGR problems regardless of the gas run in them. I've got customers that run the snot out of them and customers that poke around in them and they still have carbon problems about every 60K. Cleaning the EGR is just part of a major service on them. Earlier models were more prone to carbon but it's not rocket science to clean up and the engine will keep on rolling down the road.

 

[dkryan]

Mokanic,

Interesting! So you're saying that regardless of the octane used, the EGRs in the VQ30 series are normally "doomed?"

They checked my EGR valve six weeks ago and found it in fine shape with 72k miles on the odometer. Unfortunately, it has eaten every O2 sensor and the front cat during those 72k, in spite of solid maintenance and 93 octane gasoline.

 

[glxpassat]

You know, GC just may not work well with fuel dilution. Check out this UOA, with high fuel dilution in a turbo VW with Maxlife syn 5w-30. Great report!

 

[glxpassat]

Here's the link

 

[Mokanic]

Quote:

---

Mokanic,

Interesting! So you're saying that regardless of the octane used, the EGRs in the VQ30 series are normally "doomed?"

They checked my EGR valve six weeks ago and found it in fine shape with 72k miles on the odometer. Unfortunately, it has eaten every O2 sensor and the front cat during those 72k, in spite of solid maintenance and 93 octane gasoline.

---

No, not doomed but the early VQ30 engines do require cleaning more frequently than the latter ones. They almost always stop up where the tube enters the intake manifold. It's not too hard to get the tube off and clean it out. I'm not "downing" the VQ series engines at all. It's just one of their weaknesses.
As for O2 sensors, we have put them in three at a time in some cases. The one in the converter is the worst and Nissan sent one bullitin out saying the position of the O2 was the reason for high failure rates. They claimed water contamination when the exhaust system was warming up causes the O2 to die. Only other problem we have seen with those engines is the knock sensor throwing a code.
It is also IMPERATIVE to keep the throttle body clean on them as well.
I like the VQ30 better personally. With good maintenance;they will run forever. I have one customer that traded his 93Max in on a new 3.5L. His VG30 had 400K and never burned a drop of oil(trannies were a different story)and he has been raising ---- with the dealer becouse his new car is burning 1.5qts of oil every 3K.It's hard for them to tell him it is normal when his old Maxima didn't use a drop even with those miles. The car has about 15K on it now so it doesn't look like the oil consumption is going to lessen. He wanted his old Max back but they put it in the showroom for customers to look at and some guy offered them enough to get it. I guess 1.5qts in 3K miles isn't the end of the world but I wouldn't like it too well myself on a new car.
Anyway, do you run any type of gas/oil additives in your engine? If you have only had to put one O2 in in 70K miles you are doing well. As the EGR on early VQ engines were more prone to stopping up;so are the O2s more prone to contamination.

 

[dkryan]

Mokanic,

In the past, I used to use Techron every six months. Since late 2005, I've been running FP60 (now FP Plus). No oil additives whatsoever until after my Auto-Rx rinse in early 2006. I now run four ounces of Auto-Rx as a maintenance dose.

No oil consumption issues, fortunately,

Both rear O2 sensors were replaced at 43k miles due to a "C0010" code. The front O2 sensor and cat were replaced July 3rd due to a "420" code that did not clear, in spite of 1.5 days of dealership work to correct the problem.

The throttle body was cleaned two years ago, during which time the indy managed to "split" my air intake forward of the air filter. High silicon on the UOA led me to discover his handiwork. Loosening bolts, pulling the two parts together, re-bolting, and judicious use of duct tape (black, of course) fixed the problem for about $300 less than the cost of a new housing. One can only guess what they'll do to it this time when they clean the TB.

I did replace the MAF due to a sudden and prolonged gas mileage drop. I surmised I had over-oiled the K&N (long since gone) and just enough had gotten picked up by the "wires" to cause a rich condition. The mileage has improved back to where it originally was since then.

They checked the EGR tubing before replacing the O2 sensor and front cat. They claimed it looked good, much to their surprise. Too bad, as EGR tubing had to have been cheaper than what I forked over for that "420" repair!

 

[Mokanic]

We have seen problems with the cotton gauze from a K&N contaminating a MAF sensor. Sometimes you can clean it with rubbing alcohol & a Q-tip and it will be good as new. It's sounds like the FP & AutoRx have helped with carbon deposits in your car. I would continue to use it. If you ever need help give me a PM. Take care.

 

[dkryan]

Thanks.

 

[Dave H]

2002 Maxima SE,

Your oil results are just the opposite of my '97 Maxima SE. I had been using Mobil 1 5w30, and my lead spiked to 31 and 61 on 2 successive OCI's. I switched back to Castrol GTX 5w30 for several OCI's, then did an AutoRX cycle. Now I'm running GC, and my lead is down to 14. With the Mobil 1, my iron was a little high, but copper and the rest were actually low. My silicon was also higher than I'd like (possibly from the K&N I had. It was removed after my second high lead/silicon UOA) It is still higher than I'd like, but the low teens aren't bad. With GC, my iron (5) is lower than the universal averages of 13.
With GC, my flashpoint was 390, and viscosity was 62. With Mobil 1 5w30, flashpoint was 370, and viscosity of 58. Looks like I may have a fuel dilution issue, but I don't know what else I can check. All maintenance (plugs, filters, PCV, MAFS and TB cleaned) is done. I also don't have any trouble codes stored. I do have 122,000 miles on my original O2 sensors and coil packs. But again, no codes.
I'll keep an eye on this thread to see if there are any suggestions/updates. I just changed my oil (GC again), so it'll be about 3 months or so before I get another UOA. I'm going to pull a sample at 3000 miles to see where I stand.
In the meantime, I may check out my EGR tube like Mokanic talked about. Depending on how hard it is to get to. I have a FSM, so I should be able to figure it out.

Dave

 

[dkryan]

Dave H,

It sounds as though the VQ30 series is destined to spit lead. Not that I'm giving up on finding the right oil for this car.
GC has fared better for me, though not as good as I'd like, either.

With 122k miles on your O2 sensors, be quite happy!

How'd you clean the MAF? I thought it was sealed, at least on my engine.

When you pull that sample, I'd recommend you use Dyson analysis. For the $, you'll get both the lab work and a thorough interpretation of the numbers. No guessing!

Be sure and post your numbers on your next UOA.

 

[Dave H]

dkryan,

I have used isopropryl alcohol on a q-tip to clean my MAFS, but that technique kinda makes me nervous. That wire is awefully thin. Now, I use CRC's Mass Air Flow Cleaner. Kinda like carb cleaner, but safe for MAFS. Not too sure about the 2001's, but you should be able to take the whole MAFS assembly (black tube and all) out of the intake tract. On mine, I remove from the TB back to the air filter box, then remove the MAFS from the "oil seperator" box thing by undoing a large hose clamp. Then you can easily get to the MAF with a Q-tip or better yet, the MAFS Cleaner.
It has seemed to me that the VQ does spit lead. But does it really matter in the end? I don't know. Maybe it is a fuel dilution issue, soft bearing overlay, etc.
My next UOA will most likely be a Dyson analysis. I think his interpretation would be worth its weight in gold.
I do know one thing, though. With my experience with Mobil 1 in this engine, it will not be going back in. Not saying it's a bad oil, just not appropriate for my engine. Not only was my UOA poor, but it was much louder than either GTX or GC. (I've posted this observation before). I know there are some who say there is no sound difference, but I definitely noticed one. Even my wife did, so I know it isn't a placebo affect. Maybe it is unfair to blame the oil, but I don't think it is just coincidence.

Dave