I could be wrong, but I believe XOM is making some Group III in South Texas. Beaumont, Channelview, somewhere down there.
GeorgeCLS "TESTING" Mobil 1
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beaumont I think PAO and GPIII.
bruce
bruce
Beaumont, indeed. Have many friends and family who have worked in that plant over the years.
A little info tidbit for you....the old metal Mobil 1 cans made in the 70s used to say the oil was good for 25k.
I guess the EP is nothing more than a marketing gimmick, although surely the formulation has changed substantially over the years.
A little info tidbit for you....the old metal Mobil 1 cans made in the 70s used to say the oil was good for 25k.
I guess the EP is nothing more than a marketing gimmick, although surely the formulation has changed substantially over the years.
I see George is posting today...maybe we'll get an update?
My Father In Law ran Mobil 1 at 25K OCI in the early 80's in his new cars with electronic carbs.. By 125K the engines were so loose and noisy they sounded like they could explode at any moment.
I think that Mobil 1 made a mistake with 25K OCI's back then. I think it may have been possible in a few engines back then, and it is more feasible with current engines.
Even now, I stick with 7K to 10K OCI's....and I ~might~ consider a 15K OCI in the right engine with the right oil and filtration and monitoring system.
On the other hand, the local Amsoil dealer sends all of his customer out with 1 year/ 25K mile OCI's and it may be working.
Buster, did we see any confirmation that any Mobil 1 was sent for testing? I cannot find any confirmation of this from GeorgeCLS. However, the search function isn't everything it should be.
If your logic is right, and the Mobil 1 Extended Performance is for extended performance, then what does that say about PAO's if M1 is not for extended service?
Their net profit says everything. Amsoil I would bet still uses vast majority PAO in it's formulation and it's market niche is extended drains.
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"Extended performance" doesn't mean "best performance" or on par with Mobil 1. It simply means the EP oils are capable of extended drain. This doesn't mean Mobil 1 oils are not even more capable of extended drain than EP oils. "Extended performance" may well be in comparison to Group II and Group II+ oils.
A quart of Group III oil costs less than $1. If the additives cost another $1 or so, and the bottle 25 cents, you can see how much is needed for marketing, distribution, and research. Does anyone know the current price for a quart of PAO? Is it about $2 a quart?
mori is right. I'd be more likely to believe that the regular M1 being the more popular oil factory fill in turbos and the Vette/Viper, is just as capable in wear protection and maybe more so for high temps than EP. EP it appears is just a long drain Group III.
Spec changes on both M1 and Mobil 1 Extended Performance indicate to me they're likely both mostly Group III except for the 0w40 grade, and even that probably has some Group III in it.
There are other Group III based oils meeting the Corvette spec.
There are other Group III based oils meeting the Corvette spec.
And for 30% - 50% less $$$.
Extended Performance came from the marketing department mostly IMO. Means nothing more, nothing less IMO compared to regular Mobil 1, in terms of TBN retention etc. when looking at UOA posted here.
Marketing is a POWERFUL force if you fall victim to it.
If you recall, when the API/SL version of the Mobil 1, EP first came out, it had a much more robust add pack than the regular Mobil 1 formulation. Specifically it contained significantly higher levels of AW and detergent/dispersant additives. All that changed when the API/SM licensed version of the EP came out sometime last year.
The Mobil 1 Extended Performance and the regular Mobil 1 now look very close in terms of add levels - it would be VERY interesting to see comparative VOAs and TBN's of these current formulations. I'd bet they are closer than you think in terms of add treat levels. I suppose the "good" news is that if the EP is a 15k oil, then the regular Mobil 1 is certainly at 10k-12k oil under ideal driving conditions....
The idea that the regular Mobil 1 is still PAO based makes NO sense at all and falls into the catagory of wishfull thinking. If you are faced with a shortage of PAO, it only makes sense to substitute Group III for PAO in your best selling formulations. For EOM, those would be their regular SAE 5w30 (the factory fill for many vehicles), followed by their 10w30. Their 15w-50/EP would be a distant third and the 0w-40 and 5w-20 would bring up the rear....
I'm sure the EP would meet all the same specs as their regular GF-4 product. However it would be confusing to Mobils customers to have so much product overlap - and EOM would have to pay to run the additional tests for GM 4718M, Honda, etc...
If look at off the shelf synlubes, you'll see many full synthetics will meet GM 4718M. For example, the Group III based, Amsoil XL Series meets this spec in their SAE 5w30/10w-30 grades.
The Mobil 1 Extended Performance and the regular Mobil 1 now look very close in terms of add levels - it would be VERY interesting to see comparative VOAs and TBN's of these current formulations. I'd bet they are closer than you think in terms of add treat levels. I suppose the "good" news is that if the EP is a 15k oil, then the regular Mobil 1 is certainly at 10k-12k oil under ideal driving conditions....
The idea that the regular Mobil 1 is still PAO based makes NO sense at all and falls into the catagory of wishfull thinking. If you are faced with a shortage of PAO, it only makes sense to substitute Group III for PAO in your best selling formulations. For EOM, those would be their regular SAE 5w30 (the factory fill for many vehicles), followed by their 10w30. Their 15w-50/EP would be a distant third and the 0w-40 and 5w-20 would bring up the rear....
I'm sure the EP would meet all the same specs as their regular GF-4 product. However it would be confusing to Mobils customers to have so much product overlap - and EOM would have to pay to run the additional tests for GM 4718M, Honda, etc...
If look at off the shelf synlubes, you'll see many full synthetics will meet GM 4718M. For example, the Group III based, Amsoil XL Series meets this spec in their SAE 5w30/10w-30 grades.
Is there a shortage of PAO though?
Yes, there is a shortage of PAO basestock refining capacity at the current time. In fact, Amsoils management has been very up front about this in some of their dealer correspondance; it's one of the main reasons for their recent price increases.
The PAO's are still in high demand for applications other than engine oils. These include the newer ATF's like Mercon SP and Dexron VI, along with applications like industrial gear lubes and compressor oils. In these applications the superior oxidative and thermal stability of PAO's allows for consistently longer service intervals.
The PAO's are still in high demand for applications other than engine oils. These include the newer ATF's like Mercon SP and Dexron VI, along with applications like industrial gear lubes and compressor oils. In these applications the superior oxidative and thermal stability of PAO's allows for consistently longer service intervals.
The non-EP 0w30, 5w30 and T&S5w30 still have the -54C pour point, so maybe these are still PAO.
From a business perspective, it would make sense to take advantage of the super group III basestocks and use PAO's as the correction fluid. If you can make an oil perform as well or nearly as close to a true PAO/Ester blend, and reduce the price, it's a no brainer.
For the purists I would use Amsoil/RL. It wouldn't surprise me if the other small blenders follow this path. It makes economic sense. Also, depending on the chemist, the additive package is really what sets an oil apart and that is where I think Amsoil does an excellent job. I also like Amsoil's updated response to what base oils they use. I think it's the best, most comprehensive response from an oil maker. I agree with it 100%.
For the purists I would use Amsoil/RL. It wouldn't surprise me if the other small blenders follow this path. It makes economic sense. Also, depending on the chemist, the additive package is really what sets an oil apart and that is where I think Amsoil does an excellent job. I also like Amsoil's updated response to what base oils they use. I think it's the best, most comprehensive response from an oil maker. I agree with it 100%.
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