Mobil 1 - BASE OILS

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this topic is so over-hyped...

i have a different question. i notice people keep saying mobil1 EP 5W-30 was the one tested and found to have or be group 3. but isn't that supposed to be their "best" line which can handle 15,000 mile OCI's? so what's the deal? is EP really better? and if so, what percentage of it was tested group3? and doesn't this all come to show that group 3 is better in that case?
 
I thought it was Mobil 1 that was tested, oh well. Still leaves doubt about which Mobil "synthetic" products really are synthetic (in the US, at least).

Patman, I thought Amsoil XL series was the best group III product(s)?
 
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cfromc - get it right, man. group 3 is also synthetic. so you cant say things like "really are synthetic" when referring to the differences between group 3 and 4.
 
BennyL, I'm guess I'm just old-fashioned. To me, Group III is highly processed conventional oil. I could use some analogies, but I think you probably know the differences in how all the groups are made. I think Group III oils have come a long way and are better in some respects than Group IV oils, but still, for the most part Group IV oils are superior. To the average DIY consumer, a synthetic oil is a synthetic oil, superior to conventional, priced more and "worth" more performance-wise. They have no clue about "groups" and Syntec Castrol is more-or-less the same as Redline. We know that's not that case because the oils are formulated for different purposes to different markets.

I think it is ethically wrong for oil companies to portray that all Group III, IV, and V oils are "synthetic", when consumers think they are essentially getting the same thing, regardless of the group. Of course, this type of thing is done all the time, everyday. Ethics become blurred when "everyone else is doing it" and the behavior becomes rationalized. What does "organic" meat mean? No cages, no hormones/steroids? Or does it mean open range, corn-fed, etc.? Different people will interpret it differently. I interpret an oil company calling Group III "synthetic" as an attempt to maximize profits with a bait-and-switch approach.

Some will argue that it doesn't really matter because the engine will last longer than the car, or that what's important is performance. Good points, and probably true. However, I like to get what I think I'm buying. If the consumer knew what they were buying along with any real or perceived differences, that consumer is in a better position to make an educated purchasing decision. I would like to see a better description than just the broad label "synthetic" slapped on the bottles.

Rant over, sorry so long.
 
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The only Mobil Japanese website I've seen is in Japanese only. Unless one can understand Japanese, it’s useless.

As has been pointed out, EM is not a Japanese company. Can we trust that their Japanese website is up to date?

What’s marketed in Japan may have no relationship or bearing on what’s available here.

Though they have had numerous opportunities, Mobil has refused to come clean on the issue. Their careful wordsmithing simply says the base oils they use include PAOs.

The vagueness of that statement could mean any of the following:
1) All Mobil 1 oils have at least some PAO.
2) Only some M1 oils are 100% PAO base
3) Some M1 oils may contain no PAO.

So if you want (for whatever reason) a synthetic with 100% PAO base, you can’t be certain of getting that with any of their oils (since they won’t say). Also keep in mind that the careful wording of their statement essentially rules out the possibility that all M1 oils contain 100% PAO base oil. If they did, EM would be proclaiming the fact proudly.

Some like to claim that their isn't any proof that at least some M1 oils utilize a Group III base. However, other than EMs nearly worthless statement, there appears to be even less evidence that EM uses only PAO in any of their OTC US M1 oils.
 
The bottom line for me is, it doens't matter as long as they meet specs. The Honda HTO-06 is one. The key for good turbo performane is oxidation resistance. Mobil 1 is clearly better than most oils out there for this proving they are using high quality base oils.


HTO-06

Max, show me in writing where Amsoil 5w-30 is 100% PAO/Ester.
 
What ever the base oil is...it remains the factory fill for the Viper and for the Corvette. It also remains the testing oil for new engine development in GM and that's a fact-jack.

Regardless it remains effective, available, and reasonalbly priced and is "good-nuff" for GM and their engine development.

We can speculate all day long about "some guy" that thinks the base stock is this and that, and Mobil fooling us, ripping us off blah blah...

Where are the facts....let's do the test again, challenge the base oil, factually record the data and send it in...let's get a news cast involved to publically challenge mobil...

Until the facts are present, all this hoopla is blah blah...

Happy Thanksgiving
thankyou2.gif
 
Well, I wouldn't call all of this "hoopla." This site is here for us to share information. Ultimately, each of us has the freedom to choose. I feel very good about the information that has been shared here over the years to make a very informed and confident choice. I don't like "jargon," "wordsmithing"--that is a good one, or "leagalese." I want to purchase a product that states: 50% PAO, or 25% PAO; in other words, I want to know what I am purchasing. If a company will not tell me, then I will purchase from a company that will. In the not-so-older days, we could read a MSDS and "figure it out." So, AMSOIL, Schaeffer, Redline, these companies pretty much own up to what's in their oils. So these are the companies I purchase from. Is Mobil 1 a bad oil, probably not. I just don't like their marketing,and I purchase accordingly. Here's a point to ponder: "If a company is using 100% PAO (and yes I know we really wouldn't want that), why wouldn't they want to brag about it?"

All I ask for is the knowledge of what I am purchasing...now, if Mobil 1 was priced like other blends and not the high end stuff, then I might use it.
 
IF it is not Group IV or Higher it is not synthetic....The only place on earth that GIII can be called a synthetic is in America. I prefer to go witht he global definition on this one.
 
Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
IF it is not Group IV or Higher it is not synthetic....The only place on earth that GIII can be called a synthetic is in America. I prefer to go witht he global definition on this one.

Agreed.

At Canadian Esso site, only one viscosity of Mobil 1 (5W-20) is identified as derived from petroleum-based oil. All other viscosities are derived from synthetic-based oil.
 
Again where is the link to the PROOF that Mobil 1 is NOT made from 100% PAO + Ester base stock ? The reason this keeps coming up is because of all the yap-flappin and no proof...speculation, hersay, blah blah ..

PLEEZZZEEE send me to the link that states...mobil 1 is rippin us all off they are made from GRPIII base stock not Grp IV PAO...???

Where is it ???
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Originally Posted By: TonyMazz
Again where is the link to the PROOF that Mobil 1 is NOT made from 100% PAO + Ester base stock ? The reason this keeps coming up is because of all the yap-flappin and no proof...speculation, hersay, blah blah ..

PLEEZZZEEE send me to the link that states...mobil 1 is rippin us all off they are made from GRPIII base stock not Grp IV PAO...???

Where is it ???
beer3.gif



I think it's the 3rd page:
http://www.imperialoil.ca/Canada-English/Files/Products_Lubes/IOCAENPVLMOMobil_1_5W-20.pdf

smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: TonyMazz
Again where is the link to the PROOF that Mobil 1 is NOT made from 100% PAO + Ester base stock ? The reason this keeps coming up is because of all the yap-flappin and no proof.

Proof exists only in the form of an interpreted GC. Strictly speaking, perhaps this can only be considered strong evidence that some (or at least the one tested) are not 100% PAO base. Likewise, there is no proof that any of the US Mobil 1 oils are made from 100% PAO + Ester base stock. Mobil has refused to offer proof. Instead they prefer to say they utilize synthetic base stocks including PAOs, which proves essentially nothing.
 
Originally Posted By: 1999nick
If "synthetic" oil is not in actuality highly processed oil pumped out of the ground, then what, exactly is it made out of? Where does it come from?


PAO is generally made from ethylene gas molecules.
 
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: 1999nick
If "synthetic" oil is not in actuality highly processed oil pumped out of the ground, then what, exactly is it made out of? Where does it come from?


PAO is generally made from ethylene gas molecules.


This is the top part of the petrolium refining result isnt it?

Another undereducated observation.

Check out on Mobil's US site, product data sheets for High Mileage 10w30 and Truck and SUV 5w30. Those flash points and certainly the pour points are pretty outstanding for these grades. If they arent predominately Grp IV and V then the Grp III stock is awesome.

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAXXENPVLMOMobil_1_High_Mileage_Oil.asp

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_Truck_SUV_5W-30.asp

My apology in advance should I be ignorant.
 
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Originally Posted By: Nederlander75
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: 1999nick
If "synthetic" oil is not in actuality highly processed oil pumped out of the ground, then what, exactly is it made out of? Where does it come from?


PAO is generally made from ethylene gas molecules.


This is the top part of the petrolium refining result isnt it?

Another undereducated observation.

Check out on Mobil's US site, product data sheets for High Mileage 10w30 and Truck and SUV 5w30. Those flash points and certainly the pour points are pretty outstanding for these grades. If they arent predominately Grp IV and V then the Grp III stock is awesome.

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAXXENPVLMOMobil_1_High_Mileage_Oil.asp

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAXXENPVLMOMobil_1_High_Mileage_Oil.asp

My apology in advance should I be ignorant.



My thoughts about Mobil 1 High Mileage exactly. I notice the -54 degree pour point, the fact that it is not SM, but, rather, still SL, and that it is not a "fuel saving" oil. Definitely a robust oil; possibly similar to the formula they used back when M1 was a 25,000 mile/1 year oil. Given the low pour point compared to other M1's, it probably has more PAO.
 
Originally Posted By: uconn1150
Originally Posted By: TonyMazz
Again where is the link to the PROOF that Mobil 1 is NOT made from 100% PAO + Ester base stock ? The reason this keeps coming up is because of all the yap-flappin and no proof...speculation, hersay, blah blah ..

PLEEZZZEEE send me to the link that states...mobil 1 is rippin us all off they are made from GRPIII base stock not Grp IV PAO...???

Where is it ???
beer3.gif



I think it's the 3rd page:
http://www.imperialoil.ca/Canada-English/Files/Products_Lubes/IOCAENPVLMOMobil_1_5W-20.pdf

smile.gif


Under "Precautions" section, first sentence is:
"Mobil 1 5W-20 is manufactured from high quality petroleum base stocks, carefully blended with selected additives."

Additionally, here's other links to Canadian Mobil 1 PDS and other products:
http://www.mobil.com/Canada-English/LCW/HomePage.asp

http://www.imperialoil.ca/Canada-English/Products/Lubricants/PS_L_MobilAlphaIndex.asp
 
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