BUMP...George, any update on the testing?
GeorgeCLS "TESTING" Mobil 1
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We're all on pins and needles!
I've assumed they use some group III for awhile, just not as the majority base oil. Mobil used to state openly that Mobil 1 was PAO and Ester, period. Now they use wording that is very broad. The VI and Volatility gave it away IMO. Mobil 1 5w30 is somewhere around 8-10% for Noak.
I agree with Tom's thoughts on the subject in looking at it from a performance perspective. XOM isn't the only company that won't tell you what base oil's they are/aren't using. They could be more forthcoming but they aren't and nothing will change that. Unless 427Z06 can reach millions of internet gurus and spread the anti-Mobil 1 message throughout!
I freely admit I'm not that technically knowledgeable about oil. That said, if the oil performs according to the manufacturer's specifications, what's the difference whether they put Group III, Group IV, or Log Cabin Pancake Syrup in it? (OK, OK, I know SOMETHING about oil: I know what oil weights are, what multiweight oils do, and what viscosity & detergents are. I'm still a little fuzzy on some of the other bells & whistles, certainly when it comes to base stocks. Feel free to enlighten me; that means long on information, hold the sarcasm, please.)
As far as disclosure is concerned, I change my own O&F, running Mobil 1 0W-40 in our '04 SAAB 9-5, 'cause that's what the manual specs. I do an OCI with the OEM filter at 5K. The '02 Dodge Dakota, 3.9 V-6, is running Pennzoil Conventional 10w30 (again, per spec) w/ a Pennzoil filter, 3K OCI.
As far as disclosure is concerned, I change my own O&F, running Mobil 1 0W-40 in our '04 SAAB 9-5, 'cause that's what the manual specs. I do an OCI with the OEM filter at 5K. The '02 Dodge Dakota, 3.9 V-6, is running Pennzoil Conventional 10w30 (again, per spec) w/ a Pennzoil filter, 3K OCI.
Did GeorgeCLS confirm that he sent the sample? Which lab got it? What weight/formula was sent?
Rico, its not a question if the oil is working or not since most sm/gf4 rated oils would protect any engine well. What irks people here is being misled by ExxonMobil and more that they charge close to $10 more for a group III product than their competitors. Its the deceit that infuriates people more so than anything else.
I think george has skipped out not be be seen again:
from Mickey M on Noria site:
BITOG is now locked out to the public - registered users only.
Two "look sees" were done on a gas chromotograph by Tom Schaefer at Hatco in New Jersey on two viscosities of Mobil 1 Extended Performance. No results were posted. Tom claims he saw Group III.
This seems to have nothing at all do with any Mobil 1 besides the EP line (the Delvac 1 and motorcycle formulas, for example, could hardly be formulated with Group III base stocks) and it's really not clear whether it has all that much to do with the EP line.
One of the folks who was looking into doing further analysis and I have been in touch and he dropped the project.
from Mickey M on Noria site:
BITOG is now locked out to the public - registered users only.
Two "look sees" were done on a gas chromotograph by Tom Schaefer at Hatco in New Jersey on two viscosities of Mobil 1 Extended Performance. No results were posted. Tom claims he saw Group III.
This seems to have nothing at all do with any Mobil 1 besides the EP line (the Delvac 1 and motorcycle formulas, for example, could hardly be formulated with Group III base stocks) and it's really not clear whether it has all that much to do with the EP line.
One of the folks who was looking into doing further analysis and I have been in touch and he dropped the project.
""I'll give you a bye on that. sorry to hear about the motorcycle accident. but it's been a month since you sent the sample. results??""
bye the way NO disrespect BUT what does haveing a accident
Have to do with NOT answering a simple question??
bruce
bye the way NO disrespect BUT what does haveing a accident
Have to do with NOT answering a simple question??
bruce
Any experienced lab tech who has seen a few GC scans can easily tell the difference between a Group II or Group III petroleum oil and a PAO based synthetic. The severely hydroprocessed, petroleum basestock will have a fairly broad response curve, which represents the various molecular species in the basestock. By contrast, a PAO will have a very narrow scan with a clearly defined peak that corresponds to the uniform molecular weight of that particular PAO, ie 4 Cst/6 Cst/8 Cst, etc.
TomNJ has been doing this stuff for 37 years and has no doubt seen hundreds of these scans.
The odds that he made a mistake with his interpretation of the data is basically nil....
The Mobil 1/EP, 5w30/10w-30 and the regular Mobil 1, xw-30's have the same viscometric properties. In my professional judgement they are all using extremely similar basestock blends and add packs. I'd say that the 0w-20/0w-30/0w-40 grades may still have a fairly high percentage of PAO, in order to achieve the required low temp pumpability. However even those grades could contain a good "Slug" of Group III basestock, provided the VI of that stock was fairly high.
TomNJ has been doing this stuff for 37 years and has no doubt seen hundreds of these scans.
The odds that he made a mistake with his interpretation of the data is basically nil....
The Mobil 1/EP, 5w30/10w-30 and the regular Mobil 1, xw-30's have the same viscometric properties. In my professional judgement they are all using extremely similar basestock blends and add packs. I'd say that the 0w-20/0w-30/0w-40 grades may still have a fairly high percentage of PAO, in order to achieve the required low temp pumpability. However even those grades could contain a good "Slug" of Group III basestock, provided the VI of that stock was fairly high.
I agree with TeeDub and in fact, if you look at the volatility over the years of M1, it's gone up which to me clearly indicates the presence of some Group III. I remember seeing an old PDS from M1 and the Noak was 4.9%. PAO is still in the mix, just more of a correction fluid as someone put it.
Great minds think alike!
Seriously, your analysis of the situation is almost identical to what I've been saying for the past several weeks. Tom's findings along with the specification changes speaks volumes to me.
Looks like George was either gagged by EOM and/or he found out that our conclusions were correct and decided to leave whatever doubt he could by not reporting his findings.
Triple_Se7en
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That's not a good sign when the Group III accuser hides.
Huh? What do you mean by that?
More like, when the group IV defender hides.
George is still doing the test. He said it would take several weeks as the Lab is backed up. Lets not jump the gun here.
Also, does XOM even make any Group III here in the U.S.? It's been said that U.K. and China is where they produce the Group III base oils. If thats the case, would it even make economic sense to use them when they produce 90% of the PAO's here in the U.S.?
Also, does XOM even make any Group III here in the U.S.? It's been said that U.K. and China is where they produce the Group III base oils. If thats the case, would it even make economic sense to use them when they produce 90% of the PAO's here in the U.S.?
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