Generators

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buck91

buck91

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Apr 17, 2012
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West Michigan
I've been meaning to pick up a back up generator for a few years now and looking at two at the moment. Not 100% sold on either but they seem decent and Costco has an unbeatable return policy. Looking at the Firman 2900w running inverter genny vs the Firman 3500w running tranditional genny. BOth have fairly quiet rating and I'm reading good things about this particular Chinese brand... Basically I just want to be able to keep the furnace running in the winter and the fridge/freezer running in the summer. Well, and hopefully hot water. All appliances use gas.

Any thoughts? Will 2900 running watts be sufficient? Would be nice to run a lamp or two as well but I'm well stocked on emergency lighting so its not a priority. Plus it would be easy enough to temporarily switch out from furnace power f you needed, say, to use the microwave for a minute.
 
The inverter ones are great, they don't have to drone along at 3600 RPM; they can slow down and run quieter and use less fuel when not full load.
 
if you want to run everything i suggest you get the house wired up for a transfer panel . when you need it, just plug in your generator and flip a few switches and you are have power. to get an idea of how much power you need, just add up all the stuff you intend to run convert it all to watts.
 
Originally Posted by WhyMe
if you want to run everything i suggest you get the house wired up for a transfer panel . when you need it, just plug in your generator and flip a few switches and you are have power. to get an idea of how much power you need, just add up all the stuff you intend to run convert it all to watts.



If you read my post, it is not my intention or need to "run everything."
 
I have many hours on the 3500 watt harbor fright one. It runs an amazing amount of stuff. I can have run for about 5 weeks total refrigerator, fireplace bower or attic fan, chest freezer, and I changed the hot water heater to 110V volt ran it, all necessary lights, TV etc.


To wash or use one element on the stove I had to switch off the refrigerators and hot water.

I have a main disconnect so I fed the house from the drier outlet. You need a clamp on amp meter to balance the loads. As long ans you turn off the main disconnect, then connect the cable to the drier outlet and then start the generator you are perfectly safe. If you can not be trusted or do not have a main disconnect then get a transfer panel. I had to move some breakers around to get the load balanced. Again if you do not already understand what I mean and why, get a transfer panel. I have little money so do not sue me.

Rod
 
You need to calculate the load. For a refrigerator or freezer you need starting and running load. For the heat you need load from the burner, pumps, fans. Throw in a microwave so you can eat and a few hundred watts for lights.

Either look up the load or buy a clamp-on AC amp meter with peak hold and figure it out.

Then you can determine how large a generator.

Well pump?
 
I would get a transfer switch. So can get a single circuit one for just the furnace. The rest can be plugged in via extension cord.

If you backfeeding, besides being illegal, you will be the only one who can set up the generator.
 
At my last house, I had a plug on my furnace so I could run an extension from my generator to make it work. We had an ice storm and I had to run off the generator for several hours when I lost power.
Using my non inverter generator ruined a $700 blower motor and module unit. Old fashioned generators and electronics aren't a good idea. While it will work, your often taking 7 of the cats 9 lives so to say, who knows.

http://www.startribune.com/sound-ad...re-safe-for-tvs-and-computers/448672283/
 
See about getting a factory propane capable one. I have an aftermarket propane carb and it's finicky-- I'd prefer it to be stock so I can have it handled by one entity under warranty. Plus when everyone else is running around for gasoline you can get your tanks refilled, or, worst case, exchanged, and it won't stink up your car like gas cans would. Finally, propane never goes bad.

My transfer switch looks like this guy which is neat because I can flip the well pump on (biggest load) then turn the other circuits on after that's stabilized.
 
Originally Posted by buck91
I've been meaning to pick up a back up generator for a few years now and looking at two at the moment. Not 100% sold on either but they seem decent and Costco has an unbeatable return policy. Looking at the Firman 2900w running inverter genny vs the Firman 3500w running tranditional genny. BOth have fairly quiet rating and I'm reading good things about this particular Chinese brand... Basically I just want to be able to keep the furnace running in the winter and the fridge/freezer running in the summer. Well, and hopefully hot water. All appliances use gas.

Any thoughts? Will 2900 running watts be sufficient? Would be nice to run a lamp or two as well but I'm well stocked on emergency lighting so its not a priority. Plus it would be easy enough to temporarily switch out from furnace power f you needed, say, to use the microwave for a minute.

Hot water may be an issue. My latest water heater runs over 5KW. It replaced a 4KW heater. Modern heaters maintain lower temps but have larger heaters for quicker recovery times to make up for it. The result is (usually) overall power savings.

"The furnace" not enough info. If it's truly just an oil or gas you'll probably be fine. If it is a heat pump with an electric backup/defroster, that might be 5KW right there, plus pump and fan.

Fridge/freezer and lamps, no problem.

When running the furnace and/or water heater, you have to be extra careful not to backfeed your house panel. If an electrical worker gets hurt or electrocuted while fixing lines because you just fired up your backfeeding genset, you'll be prosecuted. That's why all the calls for transfer switches.
 
I would strongly suggest an inverter model. Many companies are now making what's called an "open frame" inverter which is basically an inverter without all of the expensive housing. Yes they are a tad louder than an enclosed one but much quieter than a traditional 3600 rpm unit. The reason I suggest an inverter is because of the total harmonic distortion created. Utility power is less than 5% distortion. The average 3600rpm non inverter models are usually 12-30% distortion. Electronics do not like this and many newer furnaces will simply not work. If they do manage to work the high THD may cause damage to the board that may not be evident right away. The inverter generators are usually less than 3%, better than utility electricity. They also keep 60 hz without fluctuation.

Not to mention they save in fuel with eco mode that allows them to adjust engine speed to load. You would be surprised the wattage of some appliances. Most gen sheets list freezers and refrigerators as 700-800 watts when in reality newer ones are much lower. My freezer uses 145 watts and the fridge is about the same. The furnace is 780 watts running. I made the mistake of buying two huge non inverter generators and they're currently for sale right now. I will not buy anything other than an inverter from here on out.

Also a note about temperature.. under zero you risk the breather tube freezing with condensation inside. It would be worthwhile to install a heater on the tube. They come in kits. Sadly with our obscene cold it's becoming an issue.
 
I would instead look at the Yamaha or Generac inverter generators that put out close to 3000 watts. The downside of converting to propane is that the generator looses its portability, and possibly resale value as most people are not interested in propane. I guess you could convert it back if needed, but that would be a PITA. The downside of gas is that you need to run it for testing purposes, and deal with gasoline issues. Use of fuel stabilizer helps a lot, especially in areas like mine where E-0 is not available.

I have a Coleman 6 circuit transfer switch, with a Coleman Powermate 6250 / 5000 watt genset. I paid about $300 for an electrician to install the transfer switch, so I was right under $1000 for the entire project. The generator is crude, noisey and sometimes tempramental to start, but it was also cheap at the time. I rebuilt the carburetor recently, bypassed the low-oil switch, and added a fuel filter which helped a great deal.

http://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/portable-generators/gp-series/gp3000i This is the more modern, more polished portable generator. Much quieter than anything built from a Briggs engine.
 
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I question the long term reliability of Cheap Chinese inverter generators, and rightly so. Solid state components like the large number of capacitors in inverter generators have a limited lifespan. And repairs may not be possible at all a few years down the road.

A well chosen generator can be expected to last 20 to 30 years when properly stored and maintained. My Subaru 5500 watt generator is now 20 years old and is still in excellent shape, despite plenty of use.

As always, I prefer open frame, name brand, conventional generators. Clearly some of the Chinese Honda clones are pretty good too.
 
Go the simple route. I have a 1800 watt Wen. It great. You can just pick it up and take it outside. I have 2 50' extension cords. I only use one. Its only 115 volt. But it runs rock solid on that. Its ideal.

Problem with going bigger is they suck gas like no tomorrow. That's what folks don't understand.

I used to have a 5200 watt that would go to my breaker panel. Its gone.
 
Originally Posted by Al


Problem with going bigger is they suck gas like no tomorrow. That's what folks don't understand.


No they don't. I'm sold on my little gas sipping Champion 2K if the power ever goes out for an extended time.
 
During one of our hurricane power outages, I just sat my Champion 3500 under the tailgate of my truck and ran power cords thru the back door of my house. It ran my fridge, freezer, microwave, lamps, fans, flat screen TV and satellite receiver. Every several hours I would switch over to 220 volts and run the well pump/tank so we could flush toilets, etc.

After a couple of days we wanted showers, so I tried to run the water heater. Nope! The generator died as soon as I flipped the breaker, but no surprise there. So, we just took 'room temperature' showers and it really wasn't as bad as we thought it would be.
 
Looking at this guide ( https://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/generator-wattage-estimation-guide ) I'm curious how accurate it is. Looks like my Furnace (newer construction house about 10 years old) is rated at 120v/12amp so thats 1440. Having a hard time finding my gas hot water heater rating, the control box is labeled as 120v/1a but then there is a schematic on the side which is labeled as "rated for 12 amps." Not sure what to make of this. No indication visible on my installed sump pump, is the 2150W from Honda's guide a good reference?
 
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