And why would you do this? Just to save a small amount of fuel? There would be no technical benefit to doing so, thinner oils are never better for wear. If you are concerned about cold weather starting then use an oil with a 0W winter rating as I do. My generator has started at -20F multiple times with no issue.
20wt for low load on small inverter generator at or below 0f?
- Thread starter mitsuman47
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Has zero to do with saving fuel.
Like I said, I graphed out the approximate viscosities, and these lighter oils are still very thick at 100f (obviously, easy to find these numbers).
Actually, the 0w12 is substantially thicker at 100f than the 10w60 in my M3 is at 212f. It’s gonna be fine. I promise.
Also, I warned you to stop reading.
Jk, I like these discussions. I’m willing to assume the risk. The generator cost me $300 seven years ago. It doesn't have dual fuel which I prefer now. So, I’ll relegate it to very cold weather, and see what happens. If I ever get some real long term usage in the conditions I set it up for, I’ll send off a UOA and report back.
It got down to 14 here, only used a $100 amazon diesel heater about the size of a desktop PC, and a wood insert to run it outside. It drank 3 gallons in 24 hours. Didnt lose power, much better vs 5 days with no electricity or water in 2021. Cat approved.
No I am just being practical. In my situation where we are sump pump dependent I would never experiment on an automatic standby generator that is critical to protecting my property. I am nowhere near being willing to "assume the risk" just because I want to screw around with low HT/HS oils for whatever reason.Has zero to do with saving fuel.
Like I said, I graphed out the approximate viscosities, and these lighter oils are still very thick at 100f (obviously, easy to find these numbers).
Actually, the 0w12 is substantially thicker at 100f than the 10w60 in my M3 is at 212f. It’s gonna be fine. I promise.
Also, I warned you to stop reading.
I’m willing to assume the risk. The generator cost me $300 seven years ago. It doesn't have dual fuel which I prefer now. So, I’ll relegate it to very cold weather, and see what happens. If I ever get some real long term usage in the conditions I set I set it up for, I’ll send off a UOA, and report back.
Do you know your oil run temperature?
Very nice. Glad y’all didn’t have any problems.
Did you run this heater to supplement your central HVAC unit? Or, run it alone to heat entire house?
I’m intrigued by this because when I run my wood stove the furthest bathroom in the house gets very little heat. Have to run a fan occasionally to move heat to that side of the house.
That’s understandable. I won’t have anywhere near that kind of load on this generator. It is a tiny 2000w (1600w running) inverter I bought just for low load situations. It’s nearly sitting on idle the entire time.
If I had to run anything more than the 300w loads I’ve described, it would be to run the microwave for a minute or two.
It did help the house heater run a little less. the wife and I noticed. didnt do anything scientific though like natural gas consumed vs diesel. The output from it felt similar to a single 1500w space heater.
The overall plan was to use the 3500 watt predator generator with two 1500w space heaters, plus this diesel heater the moment the electricity went out. Had enough gas to go about 48 hours. This is probably amateur hour and entertainment for those in the north but i'm originally from Florida and wear shorts as often as possible
Not sure I understand the question. But, if you’re asking if I know the oil temp while the generator is running, yes I do. I measured it at 108f after running for 30 minutes in 18f ambient temps with a 300w load on it. Verified with another thermometer after I turned the generator off.
I should also add, I’m not advising that anyone do what I am, by running lower viscosity oils than the manufacturer recommends. This is a “risk” that I’m willing to take, since I have several backup options. And, the best policy, especially if someone is at risk of freezing during inclement weather, is to run what the manufacturer recommended.
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Lol. I agree. Our infrastructure, and my body for that matter lol, is not made for the temps they get up north. Same as air conditioning not being in 50% of homes up north until about 20 years ago. Folks were dying during 100f heat waves up there. And, we’re still out doing yard work every day in those temps.It did help the house heater run a little less. the wife and I noticed. didnt do anything scientific though like natural gas consumed vs diesel. The output from it felt similar to a single 1500w space heater.
The overall plan was to use the 3500 watt predator generator with two 1500w space heaters, plus this diesel heater the moment the electricity went out. Had enough gas to go about 48 hours. This is probably amateur hour and entertainment for those in the north but i'm originally from Florida and wear shorts as often as possible
Thanks for the info. Which heater did you buy?
I get it. But really I think it is more an issue with warmer weather than freezing. That's a bit too unpredictable for me, I want an oil that will be acceptable for anything that might come around. Hence my use of 0W-40, the generator starts just fine even when very cold and unless the air temperature is above 95 or so (unlikely here in the Milwaukee area) it should provide sufficient film thickness.
I do take good care of the generator including keeping a close watch on the battery and other maintenance items. That seems more important to me as opposed to joy riding low HT/HS oils. Not to be obstinate here but I just don't see why anyone would do that. I also have a small backup backup generator and I wouldn't even do it for that one. That's my last stand to run the sump pump, furnace and refrigerator should all else fail.
Yeah that's it and that's really cool for run temperature.
I tried to pull start a generator yesterday when it was about +10f, I believe it had 15w-40 in it. It was like trying to drag it through the mud by the rip cord.
Would you do it to the backup for the backup generator?
Actually, this exercise has me thinking about getting an LiFePO4 battery, battery charger, and inverter setup for night time during these cold weather outages. It would run silently during the night for the little amount of power I’d need. Then I could crank the generator in the morning and charge the battery/run all the things in the house. It would put more load on the generator which may help me to get it closer to normal operating temp.
But, it is difficult trying to justify having more crap stored at the house for a thing that (maybe) only happens once every several years.
If it were mine in those conditions I would put in a good quality 0W-20, it'll be easier to start when the oil is very cold.
But in those running conditions after the oil has stabilized in temperature just about anything on the chart would work. So the real advantage in using the 0w-20 would be easier starting. That can be a big deal though when it's really cold out because the fuel doesn't produce very much vapor on Startup and if you get it to turn faster you have a better chance of getting it to start instead of accidentally getting the spark plug wet to the point where it won't fire anymore.
Fresh winter gasoline would be a big concern. Winter gasoline is formulated different than summer gasoline and will produce more Vapors during a cold start to help the engine start. It's important that the winter gasoline is from this season and not last year because storing winter gasoline in warm summer conditions causes it to boil off the lighter components that provide the vapors for easy starting in the winter.
Summer gasoline does not produce the same quantity of vapors when very cold (compared to Winter gasoline) and summer gasoline may not produce enough vapor for the engine to start in cold conditions. Summer gasoline is more likely to get you to get this spark plug too wet and after that happened in very cold temperatures you're never going to get it to start until you remove the spark plug and put in a dry one.
And also that the generator has been run in the last couple of months at least once so that you know it's still in decent shape to start.
And nowadays a good heavy chain and a heavy lock chaining it to something that is practically immovable would be a must. Generators announce their presence with their noise and in the middle of the night they're very easy to steal and get away with before somebody gets to stop them.
One or two powerful LED lights lighting up the area that the generator is in so that you could see someone approaching it would also be a good idea as a theft deterrent.
When there is a large ice storm knocking out power to a large area it takes many many days before the all lines can be restored because there are so many lines that are down. The lines to just about every house may have to be replaced because they were knocked down from ice . The stores for 100's of miles around will be out of every single size of generator. And gasoline cans will also be impossible to find. You may have to travel a long distance to get to a working gas station, and you may even have to wait a few days before there are any working gas stations within traveling distance. People that cannot obtain them will steal them. This is what has happened in those conditions in the past in a couple of major ice storms that we've had in this country and you can expect it to happen if those conditions exist again.
But in those running conditions after the oil has stabilized in temperature just about anything on the chart would work. So the real advantage in using the 0w-20 would be easier starting. That can be a big deal though when it's really cold out because the fuel doesn't produce very much vapor on Startup and if you get it to turn faster you have a better chance of getting it to start instead of accidentally getting the spark plug wet to the point where it won't fire anymore.
Fresh winter gasoline would be a big concern. Winter gasoline is formulated different than summer gasoline and will produce more Vapors during a cold start to help the engine start. It's important that the winter gasoline is from this season and not last year because storing winter gasoline in warm summer conditions causes it to boil off the lighter components that provide the vapors for easy starting in the winter.
Summer gasoline does not produce the same quantity of vapors when very cold (compared to Winter gasoline) and summer gasoline may not produce enough vapor for the engine to start in cold conditions. Summer gasoline is more likely to get you to get this spark plug too wet and after that happened in very cold temperatures you're never going to get it to start until you remove the spark plug and put in a dry one.
And also that the generator has been run in the last couple of months at least once so that you know it's still in decent shape to start.
And nowadays a good heavy chain and a heavy lock chaining it to something that is practically immovable would be a must. Generators announce their presence with their noise and in the middle of the night they're very easy to steal and get away with before somebody gets to stop them.
One or two powerful LED lights lighting up the area that the generator is in so that you could see someone approaching it would also be a good idea as a theft deterrent.
When there is a large ice storm knocking out power to a large area it takes many many days before the all lines can be restored because there are so many lines that are down. The lines to just about every house may have to be replaced because they were knocked down from ice . The stores for 100's of miles around will be out of every single size of generator. And gasoline cans will also be impossible to find. You may have to travel a long distance to get to a working gas station, and you may even have to wait a few days before there are any working gas stations within traveling distance. People that cannot obtain them will steal them. This is what has happened in those conditions in the past in a couple of major ice storms that we've had in this country and you can expect it to happen if those conditions exist again.
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I keep 5-30 in all of my gensets for 2 reasons:
1. I won't know the outside temp when I need them to run, sure don't want to break a pull cord just when you need it to run.
2. The OCIs are short enough that I could switch grades if I needed to while during an extended run.
1. I won't know the outside temp when I need them to run, sure don't want to break a pull cord just when you need it to run.
2. The OCIs are short enough that I could switch grades if I needed to while during an extended run.
Use the battery out of your car and skip the dedicated battery. Chances are that the dedicated battery will go bad before you ever actually use it for the intended purpose or it'll be in some neglected state of charge...unless you desire a new part-time job or babysitting a battery that you never use.Would you do it to the backup for the backup generator?
Actually, this exercise has me thinking about getting an LiFePO4 battery, battery charger, and inverter setup for night time during these cold weather outages. It would run silently during the night for the little amount of power I’d need. Then I could crank the generator in the morning and charge the battery/run all the things in the house. It would put more load on the generator which may help me to get it closer to normal operating temp.
But, it is difficult trying to justify having more crap stored at the house for a thing that (maybe) only happens once every several years.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
If it’s a pull start - probably talking +/- a quart anyway …
Yeah, probably less for the one the OP is talking about. My Yamaha and Honda 2Ks only hold half a Qt +/- a dash.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Yep - 0W30 if it’s anything to do with cold - but I don’t think that’s added News - just my 2¢ from a guy who’s owned gens for decades …
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