Generator storage & Maintenance ?

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: FNFAL308
Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: FNFAL308

I'm perplexed by this??
Why is it BETTER to store fuel in a plastic jug then a plastic fuel tank? Why would I want to trip over a 5gal gas can all the time



I'm not an OPE technical expert, but have been tinkering with this stuff for ~30yrs.

There's a definite advantage to storing gasoline in STORAGE containers as opposed to OPE fuel tanks.

Storage containers are completely sealed, where your OPE fuel systems are basically wide open to the atmosphere.

It's the open to atmosphere part that starts the clock ticking on fuel quality lifespan.

Joel


I'm not an OPE expert either but I'm not convinced.. Other then the Tank vent (which on some units can be closed)I fail to see the diff in a container vs the tank? Ever a non vented fuel tank is not "completely" sealed..
The Gen will be stored in the same environment as the container so no advantage there either..

"IF" there is any advantage I think it would be diminished by proper fuel use & rotation.. While fuel stored in the gen can/does go bad there are things that can be done to lengthen it's practical shelf life which has already been noted. Fuel stored in a container can also go bad I've seen it myself..

IMHO the "KEY" here is "practical" storage life.. There simply is nothing you can do nor is there any container you can purchase that will hold fuel for extended periods.. GOOD quality surplus jerry cans would be great but are difficult to find anymore.. While I choose not to store large volumes of fuel at my home I do make sure to have a good supply at the beginning of hurricane season. If not used by season end it goes into the mowers, or vehicles.. This way my "practical" storage life is only 6Mo's max.

To the O/P....
I neglected to mention my favorite fuel cans are the ones I bought for my dirt bikes.. These hold 5gal, have flex spouts, and are usually vented.. It's been a long time since I bought nine but a quick visit to your local bike shop may yield this type container..


I think the EPA forced a change in the typical red gas cans, so its harder to spill or maybe harder to loose the cap (vent or fill). Or the flex spouts would not tear.

The one I got a Home Depot last year was a disaster, you had to twist a part and then push the nozzle in. The ones I have seen this year are much better in that you push a little tab on the left side with your thumb then push the whole handle down with your hand.

And the worst are the red metal safety cans. They may be metal and safe, but hard to use without spilling. And you need a funnel which can or will be dirty.

 

[odie]

Since we're on this topic . I've got almost a full tank of fresh gas in a recently purchased CHAMPION 46514 generator ( 4,000 peak , 3,500 ) and would like to drain it out . After refilling it the power came on after 3 days of outage ( never fails

). Is it possible to remove the hose between the fuel shutoff valve and the carb(?) to drain the gas out into a gas can . That way would use on/off valve , figure less mess . This is our first generator , so it's all new to me .

 

[dakota99]

Odie, what you described would work. This is actually how i store my generator when im not using it. I keep a gallon in the tank at all times. Every two weeks i run it for about 10 minutes with a 1500 watt load. At the end of three months, whatever is left in the tank gets drained out and replaced with a fresh gallon. I simply pull the fuel line off the shutoff barb, slide a small 1/4" fuel line on and route it to an empty container. The three month old fuel goes in my truck. After i refill with a fresh gallon (treated with ethanol-stabil and mmo) i usually run it for 4-5 minutes to get the new fuel into the carb. Never had a problem.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: odie
Since we're on this topic . I've got almost a full tank of fresh gas in a recently purchased CHAMPION 46514 generator ( 4,000 peak , 3,500 ) and would like to drain it out . After refilling it the power came on after 3 days of outage ( never fails

). Is it possible to remove the hose between the fuel shutoff valve and the carb(?) to drain the gas out into a gas can . That way would use on/off valve , figure less mess . This is our first generator , so it's all new to me .


It should work if the fuel line is new. When the fuel line ages it sometimes feels like its glued onto the fitting.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: odie
Since we're on this topic . I've got almost a full tank of fresh gas in a recently purchased CHAMPION 46514 generator ( 4,000 peak , 3,500 ) and would like to drain it out . After refilling it the power came on after 3 days of outage ( never fails

). Is it possible to remove the hose between the fuel shutoff valve and the carb(?) to drain the gas out into a gas can . That way would use on/off valve , figure less mess . This is our first generator , so it's all new to me .


This is what I do.

I mix a can with Stabil and fill the tank of my generator. About every 6 months, once in the spring and once in the fall, I empty one of 4 5 gallon cans and drain the tank in this fashion.

One of the kids ends up with almost 10 gallons of gas in his/her car and I get some fresh gas with a double dose of Stabil to refill the generator.

I open the fuel valve, run it for about 20 minutes and close the fuel valve to run the carb dry.

I run the generator every month for a 15-20 minute exercise with a space heater as the load.

I think I've had my generator 5 or 6 years now. I can't remember if I got it in Dec 2005 or 2006 and haven't had any trouble.

I usually also change the oil in the fall if I've not needed to use my generator other than the monthly exercise.

 

[car54]

I find it much easier to store equipment dry and keep fresh cans of gas. I always dump the 3-4 month old gas into the motorcycle or car and always have fresh cans. nothing ever gets so old it goes to waste and I am never caught with my pants down when I need gas.

I recently bought a five gallon can of VP SEF94 long stability gas, and that stuff is perfect for the small two strokes and other equipment I rarely use, such as my gas powered air compressor. It gets used at least once a week, but for such a short period of time that a tank of gas lasts 6+ months. The SEF94 has a 3 year life, so it's perfect. The price doesn't matter at $12 per gallon, easy to justify when everything starts instantly and basically eliminates carb jobs.

 

[Donald]

Has anyone considered getting an LP gas adapter for their generator? They are about $240 for my 5KW generator. Would pretty much do away with the generator maint. for storing. I have a 100lb tank for my stove and I could also get a few of the normal 20lb tanks like one uses for the BBQ. In a pinch a store with filled tanks on a rack (but no power) might sell you one if you ran out. And you can always use gasoline also.

 

[odie]

Thanks for all the input . The portable space heater is a good idea . May use the leaf blower with it . Would use the drained gas for the mowers .

 

[AandPDan]

Originally Posted By: Donald
Has anyone considered getting an LP gas adapter for their generator? They are about $240 for my 5KW generator. Would pretty much do away with the generator maint. for storing. I have a 100lb tank for my stove and I could also get a few of the normal 20lb tanks like one uses for the BBQ. In a pinch a store with filled tanks on a rack (but no power) might sell you one if you ran out. And you can always use gasoline also.


Yup, done that conversion. No more problems with bad gas. My 5kw runs 5 hours or more on a 20 pound tank. On my 250 gallon tank it should work out to running about 8-9 days straight.

The best thing, while everyone is in line trying to get gas for their generators, as you said, I just have to exchange a tank.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: Donald
Has anyone considered getting an LP gas adapter for their generator? They are about $240 for my 5KW generator. Would pretty much do away with the generator maint. for storing.


Propane powered units (or liquid petroleum I presume?) like this one can be had for ~$450. It's like anything else, if you've got the fuel source on hand, you're good to go.

Joel

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: Donald
Has anyone considered getting an LP gas adapter for their generator? They are about $240 for my 5KW generator. Would pretty much do away with the generator maint. for storing.


Propane powered units (or liquid petroleum I presume?) like this one can be had for ~$450. It's like anything else, if you've got the fuel source on hand, you're good to go.

Joel


Can you provide a link? Seems cheap unless its a low KW one.

 

[Cujet]

A solution you may not have considered is to use Avgas 100LL as the only fuel during storage.

Fresh Avgas lasts a minimum of 5 years and often, much longer. No stabil necessary. I've heard of Avgas lasting 10 years in cool climates without any issues.

That's what I do with small gensets. I also make sure there is a fuel shut off valve. That way, I can run the carb dry (avgas residue will dry completely, without varnish).

If, for some reason the generator is being used, I'll fill it with fresh car gas. Once done, I'll either run it dry or siphon it out. Avgas is wonderful stuff. Not only is it 100% ethanol free, it's also designed and engineered for air cooled engines. You will notice it runs better on it.

Generally, I keep 1 to 2 gallons in the generator tank.

 

[FNFAL308]

Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: Donald
Has anyone considered getting an LP gas adapter for their generator? They are about $240 for my 5KW generator. Would pretty much do away with the generator maint. for storing.


Propane powered units (or liquid petroleum I presume?) like this one can be had for ~$450. It's like anything else, if you've got the fuel source on hand, you're good to go.

Joel



Propane is a POOR fuel source for these units.. Run times are diminished considerably when measured hour per gal..

I'll not spend much time on this because I've said it 100 times before but "IF" you choose a LOW Budget Gen don't be surprised when it takes a dump.. In fact I would just plan on it doing so when you need it the most.
A $450.00 gen aint much of a gen and is certain to fail.. Ya get what ya pay for with a GEN and $450.00 don't buy much..

 

[odie]

What size hose is used between the shut off valve and carb? Champion model #46514 (4000 peak, 3500 running watts). Where can I buy it? Thanks

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: FNFAL308

A $450.00 gen aint much of a gen and is certain to fail.. Ya get what ya pay for with a GEN and $450.00 don't buy much..


To each his own.

The ones myself and many on this forum own, will likely outlast us.

Many of us don't have the weather patterns that warrant the purchase of a $1000 portable generator. If I did, I'd have a permanent NG fueled household unit installed.

If I did have a major disaster where I live, I'd never be able to source (long term) fuel anyway. NG included most likely.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: Donald


Can you provide a link? Seems cheap unless its a low KW one.


Donald, that particular unit was on amazon . com

 

[car54]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
A solution you may not have considered is to use Avgas 100LL as the only fuel during storage.

Fresh Avgas lasts a minimum of 5 years and often, much longer. No stabil necessary. I've heard of Avgas lasting 10 years in cool climates without any issues.

That's what I do with small gensets. I also make sure there is a fuel shut off valve. That way, I can run the carb dry (avgas residue will dry completely, without varnish).

If, for some reason the generator is being used, I'll fill it with fresh car gas. Once done, I'll either run it dry or siphon it out. Avgas is wonderful stuff. Not only is it 100% ethanol free, it's also designed and engineered for air cooled engines. You will notice it runs better on it.

Generally, I keep 1 to 2 gallons in the generator tank.


really? I never thought about running avgas in my small engines. I know about all the problems lead causes in av engines, so Ive never tried it, not to mention it runs $6.35 at the nearest GA field.. (We don't even have avgas at DCA)

VP racing fuels SEF94 smells like avgas and runs $13/gal, but is lead free.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: odie
What size hose is used between the shut off valve and carb? Champion model #46514 (4000 peak, 3500 running watts). Where can I buy it? Thanks


Its normally 1/4". If you buy fuel line make sure its braided. My Coleman generator with a B&S Vanguard engine has a carb that requires 3/16". So I have some 3/16" fuel line from the filter to the carb. I put the fuel line in hot water for a minute to get it to fit the 1/4" fitting on the filter. I will replace the fuel line when I replace the filter as I will never get it off.

 

[FNFAL308]

Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: FNFAL308

A $450.00 gen aint much of a gen and is certain to fail.. Ya get what ya pay for with a GEN and $450.00 don't buy much..


To each his own.

The ones myself and many on this forum own, will likely outlast us.

Many of us don't have the weather patterns that warrant the purchase of a $1000 portable generator. If I did, I'd have a permanent NG fueled household unit installed.

If I did have a major disaster where I live, I'd never be able to source (long term) fuel anyway. NG included most likely.


Not at all...

My intention here and in every other post I make is to share info.. Info obtained from REAL experience NOT Internet chatter.. Of course you and anyone else can and will do with that info whatever you wish.. No skin off my nose either way, I just HATE to see hard earned $$ thrown away, it's a flaw of mine I reckon.. If I can share knowledge I am pleased to do so and in fact would hope that if you or someone else had experience/knowledge RE: Something I do not I would certainly hope others would do the same good turn?

These gens are of poor quality and make dirty power.. They are prone to power head (gen-set) failures and V/R issues (Voltage Reg.).. If you have not seen what a bunch of X-tra volts can do to your A/C powered appliances you may get a chance to find out first hand. having seen, & worked on hundreds of gens recomending someone purchase one of these is something I just cant do in good conscience. Seriously how good can a $450.00 gen be?

Personally I "choose" to make sure I am able to provide adequate, reliable power for my family if the need arises and I refuse to cut corners on that.. May be another "FLAW" of mine..
Having been through not one but two back to back DIRECT hits from Major Hurricanes the lessons learned will remain with me for ever.. Also seeing first hand the devastation of Hurricane Andrew years ago (down South from me) made it quite clear how quickly very bad things can happen..

I have a feeling the Peeps in the N.East up until a couple days ago felt very much like you in thinking there just is no need for a good gen. Betting Thousands of them are rethinking that at this very moment..


As to the suggestion to run AVGAS in your gens I suggest you all do a bit of homework on that.. I won't say my thoughts are etched in stone facts but above average knowledge of small engines and the combustion process in general would suggest that is not a good plan.. As I have previously stated these engines, their combustion chambers, and their ignition systems are simply not designed to run these High Octane fuels..
I submit one can expect detonation, excessive heat, and hard starting (Hot Starts) if these fuels are used.. None of these effects are desirable and in fact can cause serious damage to the engine..

 

[hattaresguy]

My generator has a fuel shot off and you can drain the bowl, so no fuel issues. It also has an hour meter, I change the oil every 50-100 hours. I use it once in awhile for work and put a couple hundred hours on it a year.