GC - Good replacement for M1 0W-40 in Nissan GT-R?

[cmd51231]

Very tempting. Could use the kit to run a batch on the M1 before my next oil change in November...

I guess the deciding factor will be what ultimately Dyson can bring to the table given that they probably don't have a GT-R transmission to play with. Will they, in addition to confirming my fears about the GT-R transmission oil, possibly be able to provide a better alternative?

Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
The Dyson blog is $100/year. This includes one Premium UOA kit/year, as well as access to the Blog. The first month is a free trial period on the blog. You have to agree to a nondisclosure agreement before gaining access to the blog. In other words, you can't discuss what you learn there on other public forums like BITOG. I mentioned it to you because the DCT issue has been discussed on the blog. I'll leave it up to you whether you want to communicate with tribologists, chemists and formulators about your concerns.

 

[INDYMAC]

I can't think of a better place to start. If I just bought a $70K car and was concerned about the transmission holding up already, I would be looking for real answers and real fast. You won't find what you are looking for on BITOG.

 

[Canawler]

Another point that may or may not be important to you. Mobil 1 0w-40 is SM rated while GC is SL. Nissan probably calls for SM to maintain warranty.

 

[cmd51231]

Ya'll convinced me. Subscribing now.

Ugh... I guess they don't have an automated "here's your login info" system. Waiting around now to get my login.

 

[OVERKILL]

It sounds to me like the transmissions in these cars are just junk?

Metal shavings after 3,000 miles? In a PERFORMANCE car?

 

[cmd51231]

I would have to respectfully disagree in calling these transmissions junk. People are reliably using the stock transmission and running 700+ HP modified GT-R's already with 0 problems.

To be honest, the GT-R DCT is a love or hate it kind of thing. It is VERY different than my previous BMW stick shifts, but once you get the hang of it, it is precise and amazingly quick.

My concern is more about the oil used that was "specifically developed" for the transmission but is surrounded by a shroud of mystery as to how effective it really is. Given that there are many owners who did a 3k mile flush to find small metallic particulates in their oil, it's not a good thing.

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
It sounds to me like the transmissions in these cars are just junk?

Metal shavings after 3,000 miles? In a PERFORMANCE car?

 

[JAG]

I had a lowly 2002 Subaru Impreza RS and there were a lot of metal shavings in both the manual transmission and rear differential oil when I changed them at low mileage. In the sunlight, it looked as if I poured glitter in the oils. I think that is a normal (or not unusual) thing in somewhat new transmission oils. Is it not?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: cmd51231
I would have to respectfully disagree in calling these transmissions junk. People are reliably using the stock transmission and running 700+ HP modified GT-R's already with 0 problems.

To be honest, the GT-R DCT is a love or hate it kind of thing. It is VERY different than my previous BMW stick shifts, but once you get the hang of it, it is precise and amazingly quick.

My concern is more about the oil used that was "specifically developed" for the transmission but is surrounded by a shroud of mystery as to how effective it really is. Given that there are many owners who did a 3k mile flush to find small metallic particulates in their oil, it's not a good thing.

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
It sounds to me like the transmissions in these cars are just junk?

Metal shavings after 3,000 miles? In a PERFORMANCE car?


I dunno, guess I'm just used to hearing about stuff like the T-56, living behind the Viper and '03 Cobras with no issues?

No "launch mode" that voids your warranty or any of that stuff.....

 

[cmd51231]

JAG, you might have actually hit the nail on the head. Many of these people changing it out are changing it out for the first time. Could just very well be that these micro particulates are due to initial break-in.

Still waiting to hear back from someone on NAGTROC that was going to do a tranny oil test after initial change and another one after running the track for a bit. This should tell me a bit more whether or not I should be as concerned.

Originally Posted By: JAG
I had a lowly 2002 Subaru Impreza RS and there were a lot of metal shavings in both the manual transmission and rear differential oil when I changed them at low mileage. In the sunlight, it looked as if I poured glitter in the oils. I think that is a normal (or not unusual) thing in somewhat new transmission oils. Is it not?

 

[cmd51231]

I have no interest in turning this a "this car is better than that car" discussion. I love all well designed, high powered sports cars, including Vettes and the Viper ACR.

[censored], I park next to a gorgeous black Z06 in the work parking lot everyday.

However, since you brought it up, the launch control thing has been blown out of proportion. There have been people that have clearly abused their transmissions by launching it over and over. Nissan kind of tripped over themselves a bit by putting such a mode with:

1) 4500 RPM launch. Guaranteed to screw up any tranny that's pushing 400+ HP if used over and over.
2) Forcing the owners to turn off VDC (auto-warranty void)

Now, with the reprogrammed launch (3.5~3.6 0-60 still being posted), owners can launch at 3000 RPM and with VDC on with no warranty implications. Heck, some people are even reporting faster launch times with the DCT in auto mode, but what's the fun in that, right?

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: cmd51231
I would have to respectfully disagree in calling these transmissions junk. People are reliably using the stock transmission and running 700+ HP modified GT-R's already with 0 problems.

To be honest, the GT-R DCT is a love or hate it kind of thing. It is VERY different than my previous BMW stick shifts, but once you get the hang of it, it is precise and amazingly quick.

My concern is more about the oil used that was "specifically developed" for the transmission but is surrounded by a shroud of mystery as to how effective it really is. Given that there are many owners who did a 3k mile flush to find small metallic particulates in their oil, it's not a good thing.

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
It sounds to me like the transmissions in these cars are just junk?

Metal shavings after 3,000 miles? In a PERFORMANCE car?


I dunno, guess I'm just used to hearing about stuff like the T-56, living behind the Viper and '03 Cobras with no issues?

No "launch mode" that voids your warranty or any of that stuff.....

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: cmd51231
I have no interest in turning this a "this car is better than that car" discussion. I love all well designed, high powered sports cars, including Vettes and the Viper ACR.

[censored], I park next to a gorgeous black Z06 in the work parking lot everyday.

However, since you brought it up, the launch control thing has been blown out of proportion. There have been people that have clearly abused their transmissions by launching it over and over. Nissan kind of tripped over themselves a bit by putting such a mode with:

1) 4500 RPM launch. Guaranteed to screw up any tranny that's pushing 400+ HP if used over and over.
2) Forcing the owners to turn off VDC (auto-warranty void)

Now, with the reprogrammed launch (3.5~3.6 0-60 still being posted), owners can launch at 3000 RPM and with VDC on with no warranty implications. Heck, some people are even reporting faster launch times with the DCT in auto mode, but what's the fun in that, right?

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: cmd51231
I would have to respectfully disagree in calling these transmissions junk. People are reliably using the stock transmission and running 700+ HP modified GT-R's already with 0 problems.

To be honest, the GT-R DCT is a love or hate it kind of thing. It is VERY different than my previous BMW stick shifts, but once you get the hang of it, it is precise and amazingly quick.

My concern is more about the oil used that was "specifically developed" for the transmission but is surrounded by a shroud of mystery as to how effective it really is. Given that there are many owners who did a 3k mile flush to find small metallic particulates in their oil, it's not a good thing.

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
It sounds to me like the transmissions in these cars are just junk?

Metal shavings after 3,000 miles? In a PERFORMANCE car?


I dunno, guess I'm just used to hearing about stuff like the T-56, living behind the Viper and '03 Cobras with no issues?

No "launch mode" that voids your warranty or any of that stuff.....


I am one of those people. 5K launches at the track on my T5. It actually held up quite well.

It just seems that they should have used a stronger transmission if you cannot beat the ever living [censored] out of it, and have it survive. I know you can with the T-56.

I am not all that familiar with the Nissan transmission though, so I don't know if there are significant differences between it and the rather basic T-56.

 

[cmd51231]

Wow, that's impressive! Was it stock tranny and how much power was it putting out?

I know for a fact that the GT-R tranny is somewhat of an engineering marvel. The shifts are just absolutely quick it's mind boggling (Even gears are lined up and ready when you're in an odd gear... and vice versa). So, there is probably more fine pitch precision required if compared to the T-56 you mentioned.

But yeah, this thing already launches from 0-60 in 3.5 seconds... I can only imagine what a 5k launch would be like...

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: cmd51231
I have no interest in turning this a "this car is better than that car" discussion. I love all well designed, high powered sports cars, including Vettes and the Viper ACR.

[censored], I park next to a gorgeous black Z06 in the work parking lot everyday.

However, since you brought it up, the launch control thing has been blown out of proportion. There have been people that have clearly abused their transmissions by launching it over and over. Nissan kind of tripped over themselves a bit by putting such a mode with:

1) 4500 RPM launch. Guaranteed to screw up any tranny that's pushing 400+ HP if used over and over.
2) Forcing the owners to turn off VDC (auto-warranty void)

Now, with the reprogrammed launch (3.5~3.6 0-60 still being posted), owners can launch at 3000 RPM and with VDC on with no warranty implications. Heck, some people are even reporting faster launch times with the DCT in auto mode, but what's the fun in that, right?

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: cmd51231
I would have to respectfully disagree in calling these transmissions junk. People are reliably using the stock transmission and running 700+ HP modified GT-R's already with 0 problems.

To be honest, the GT-R DCT is a love or hate it kind of thing. It is VERY different than my previous BMW stick shifts, but once you get the hang of it, it is precise and amazingly quick.

My concern is more about the oil used that was "specifically developed" for the transmission but is surrounded by a shroud of mystery as to how effective it really is. Given that there are many owners who did a 3k mile flush to find small metallic particulates in their oil, it's not a good thing.

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
It sounds to me like the transmissions in these cars are just junk?

Metal shavings after 3,000 miles? In a PERFORMANCE car?


I dunno, guess I'm just used to hearing about stuff like the T-56, living behind the Viper and '03 Cobras with no issues?

No "launch mode" that voids your warranty or any of that stuff.....


I am one of those people. 5K launches at the track on my T5. It actually held up quite well.

It just seems that they should have used a stronger transmission if you cannot beat the ever living [censored] out of it, and have it survive. I know you can with the T-56.

I am not all that familiar with the Nissan transmission though, so I don't know if there are significant differences between it and the rather basic T-56.

 

[d00df00d]

AWD transmissions are always easier to break. Four wheels provide a lot more resistance than two.

Plus, the T56 has been around for ages. The GT-R's transmission, in addition to being much more complicated, is brand new.

 

[OVERKILL]

Yes, stock tranny. Had a yoke twist that seized to the output shaft that killed the tranny though.

My car was only making 270RWHP at the time (320-ish flywheel).

BUT

Lots of guys with 500+RWHP still doing high-RPM launches with their stock T-5's. We don't expect them to last at that level though, since they are only rated for 300lb-ft. Not a tranny renowned for durability, whilst the T-56 IS.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
AWD transmissions are always easier to break. Four wheels provide a lot more resistance than two.

Plus, the T56 has been around for ages. The GT-R's transmission, in addition to being much more complicated, is brand new.


Two-wheels hooked solid on a set of slicks I'm sure provides lots of resistance

 

[d00df00d]

Come on, you know what I meant.

 

[cmd51231]

2 wheels at 480HP, even with slicks, would have a hard time launching a 3800+ lb car from 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. Gonna need AWD for that.

Yeah, I doubt that the transmission would last with consecutive 5k launches with 500+whp even if it is a RWD car. You're going to need some STOUT tranny upgrades... at least a beefier first gear.

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
AWD transmissions are always easier to break. Four wheels provide a lot more resistance than two.

Plus, the T56 has been around for ages. The GT-R's transmission, in addition to being much more complicated, is brand new.


Two-wheels hooked solid on a set of slicks I'm sure provides lots of resistance

 

[INDYMAC]

Check with the Indycar guys to see what they are using. They switched to a paddle transmission (DCT?) this year, and I haven't seen one fail in practice or in a race yet. Maybe go up to TMS 6 June and snoop around the pits. I'll be there.

 

[cmd51231]

Wow, that sounds like a [censored] good idea. I'll try to make it, but if I can't, let me know what you snoop out!

Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
Check with the Indycar guys to see what they are using. They switched to a paddle transmission (DCT?) this year, and I haven't seen one fail in practice or in a race yet. Maybe go up to TMS 6 June and snoop around the pits. I'll be there.

 

[d00df00d]

http://www.indycar.com/tech/chassis.php

Indy uses the XTRAC 295, which I don't think is a double-clutch design. It looks like an electrohydraulically actuated manual, like in F1.


Here's a good read for anyone who hasn't seen it yet:

http://www.dctfacts.com/

DCTs are a tough application, largely because it's hard to develop a lubricant that will have the right friction coefficient for the wet clutches AND the synchros, AND still provide proper lubrication for the gears. It's not surprising that they're not quite ready for race use.