I never know whether to laugh or cry when people write off manufacturers' claims as "marketing baloney" with no basis whatsoever.
I also wonder just how many people know what a plasma bore is, and how hard it is to get an oil certified to some standards.
But by far the most amazing thing to me is that Nissan managed to make a $70k car that outperforms cars costing four times as much, and so many amateurs assume right off the bat that they know better than Nissan's engineers...
Guys, it's entirely possible that Nissan's choice of lubricants was skewed by marketing. But the fact that it's possible doesn't make it true -- and even if it is true, that wouldn't mean that we all have the knowledge to make a better choice. Nissan did not screw around with this car. They wouldn't make their recommendations willy-nilly. There has to be something to them.
GC - Good replacement for M1 0W-40 in Nissan GT-R?
- Thread starter cmd51231
- Start date
- Status
+1 to what dOOdfOOd said.
I noticed this.
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/...465&newsLang=en
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
and even if it is true, that wouldn't mean that we all have the knowledge to make a better choice.
While I agree with most of what you said d00d, the fact remains that the transmission oil that Nissan chose... also ridiculously priced at $90 per liter... is inadequate for the extremely precise DCT in the GT-R. If you visit any of the GT-R forums where actual owners visit, you will see many complaints about how bad the transmission sounds with just a few thousand miles.
In fact, several people have done transmission oil changes at just a few thousand miles and see lots of metal shavings in the oil! Some people that have tracked with the factory fill even had their cars throw a transmission overheating error and shut down...
The problem is Nissan made no attempts to release who makes the oil so that they can be the middle "markup" man. All we're left with as owners is to look on our own for alternatives.
There is a company in AU called Willall that has even gone off the ranch to produce their own oil... and with much positive feedback/reviews from users (quieter, smoother, no more overheating). While this is more appealing than the factory fill, it's still too new to confirm its long term effectiveness.
My point is... don't believe that Nissan got everything right with this car, because there is indisputable proof that the transmission oil is inadequate. That's why I wanted to get some good feedback from knowledgeable folks, such as yourself, on these forums with regards to the engine oil as well. 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I never know whether to laugh or cry when people write off manufacturers' claims as "marketing baloney" with no basis whatsoever.
I also wonder just how many people know what a plasma bore is, and how hard it is to get an oil certified to some standards.
But by far the most amazing thing to me is that Nissan managed to make a $70k car that outperforms cars costing four times as much, and so many amateurs assume right off the bat that they know better than Nissan's engineers...
Guys, it's entirely possible that Nissan's choice of lubricants was skewed by marketing. But the fact that it's possible doesn't make it true -- and even if it is true, that wouldn't mean that we all have the knowledge to make a better choice. Nissan did not screw around with this car. They wouldn't make their recommendations willy-nilly. There has to be something to them.
Last edited:
Yeah, that just looks like more marketing fluff. Call me a skeptic, but being in Sales, that looks like something I'd put out. 
I don't see GC on this photo, so how can you say that it won't do as good of a job as the M1 0w-40?
Come on buster, I know you're smarter than to fall for such vague marketing materials. Granted, you can always find a product that doesn't compare favorably to yours in one test or another.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: buster
Oh i know it's marketing. They all market their products. It's up to which company you ultimately put your faith in or trust the most. With oil, consumers don't have much to go by other than specifcations/viscosity called for etc. I usually don't deviate far from OEM recommendations. However, I would have no problem using another 40 grade oil and not worry about it either depending on the company who is making it. Most boutique oils are a complete waste of money. GC may hold up fine.
Originally Posted By: cmd51231
While I agree with most of what you said d00d, the fact remains that the transmission oil that Nissan chose... also ridiculously priced at $90 per liter... is inadequate for the extremely precise DCT in the GT-R. If you visit any of the GT-R forums where actual owners visit, you will see many complaints about how bad the transmission sounds with just a few thousand miles.
In fact, several people have done transmission oil changes at just a few thousand miles and see lots of metal shavings in the oil! Some people that have tracked with the factory fill even had their cars throw a transmission overheating error and shut down...
Originally Posted By: cmd51231
There is a company in AU called Willall that has even gone off the ranch to produce their own oil... and with much positive feedback/reviews from users (quieter, smoother, no more overheating). While this is more appealing than the factory fill, it's still too new to confirm its long term effectiveness.
Originally Posted By: cmd51231
My point is... don't believe that Nissan got everything right with this car, because there is indisputable proof that the transmission oil is inadequate.
Wow, you are making a lot of assumptions on an issue you've clearly done 0 research on.
Metal shavings in pictures from actual owners changing out their transmissions when their GT-R's only have 3000 miles and have never "launched" them is not a sign of abuse. Seriously, I own this car, and I have talked to several owners who, like me, have babied their cars through the break-in period, but still opt'd to do a transmission flush... only to find their flushed liquid full of metallic shavings.
Many of them have picture proof of this.
Personally, I witness the loud transmission shifts every time I drive her and the "clunks" the DCT can make when it downshifts. Although Nissan NA says this is "normal," I have also sat in someone's car who has flushed their transmission and the sound is diminished significantly. While this is certainly no "reliability testing over a significant period of time," it is far from skepticism. If this is something you're really interested in reading up on, I urge you to register at any of the big GT-R owner sites and head on over to the technical or transmission forums... you will see what I'm talking about.
And, last but not least, I'm not saying that Nissan in anyway did this "purposefully" and to a large degree, agree with you in that Nissan did a [censored] fine job designing this car. Even with these annoyances, the car is an absolute beast and a blast drive. However, many first year cars have their slew of issues and many times manufacturers change the recommended fluid (ie, the 370z & Infiniti G37's that had the engine click issue go away after they switched to the ester oil). Given the GT-R is absolute cutting edge engineering and that it's only been released for a little over 6 months, there simply isn't enough reliability data out there yet, and with feedback from many owners, there is very disturbing amount of feedback with regards to the inadequacies of the special GT-R transmission oil.
I, for one, wished the special GT-R oil performed as it "should." I would pay every penny for it and not have to worry about trying to source an alternative fluid for a car that has very little history to base a decision on. Trust me, not a happy spot to be in.
This could just as easily be evidence of driver abuse. In and of itself, it is not conclusive evidence of anything.
Seems we agree that anecdotes from the butt dyno aren't enough to say anything either way. Am I right?
But I thought you just said that all we have are a few preliminary and inconclusive stories? That doesn't sound like indisputable proof to me.
If you're advocating skepticism, I couldn't possibly agree more. You have my strongest support. I just feel like it's an easy leap from skepticism to prejudice, and that's not really fair to anyone.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: cmd51231
While I agree with most of what you said d00d, the fact remains that the transmission oil that Nissan chose... also ridiculously priced at $90 per liter... is inadequate for the extremely precise DCT in the GT-R. If you visit any of the GT-R forums where actual owners visit, you will see many complaints about how bad the transmission sounds with just a few thousand miles.
In fact, several people have done transmission oil changes at just a few thousand miles and see lots of metal shavings in the oil! Some people that have tracked with the factory fill even had their cars throw a transmission overheating error and shut down...
Originally Posted By: cmd51231
There is a company in AU called Willall that has even gone off the ranch to produce their own oil... and with much positive feedback/reviews from users (quieter, smoother, no more overheating). While this is more appealing than the factory fill, it's still too new to confirm its long term effectiveness.
Originally Posted By: cmd51231
My point is... don't believe that Nissan got everything right with this car, because there is indisputable proof that the transmission oil is inadequate.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: yummy88
What about all the talk about it shearing down to a 30 weight and it ruining BMW 335 engines??
I have an MB E320 that specifies M1 0W40 and up to 10K OCI and have been slightly concerned about all the talk about shearing and high metal during the Blackstone tests.
Originally Posted By: cmd51231
Wow, you are making a lot of assumptions on an issue you've clearly done 0 research on.
Originally Posted By: cmd51231
Metal shavings in pictures from actual owners changing out their transmissions when their GT-R's only have 3000 miles and have never "launched" them is not a sign of abuse. Seriously, I own this car, and I have talked to several owners who, like me, have babied their cars through the break-in period, but still opt'd to do a transmission flush... only to find their flushed liquid full of metallic shavings.
Many of them have picture proof of this.
I think you should stay with the M1 until you have proven to yourself that it is not working well. Since the oil is getting darker earlier than you expected, it sounds like M1 is a good match for the engine. If you switch to an oil that does not do this, then I would get worried.
The transmission is a whole different animal. Is it a DCT (dual clutch type) tranny? If so, there has been some discussion about this problem over at the Dyson DMW website blog. You might check that out if you want to know what some experts in the lube business are saying.
Many people have asked Nissan Corporate, and they are being completely mum about the subject. In fact, my own Nissan GT-R certified tech doesn't know the origins of the oil as Nissan Japan has simply rebadged it as "GT-R transmission oil." When he asked about it GT-R certification class, he was told "don't ask."
Sad part is, even the local dealership's service shop is aware of the oil's "pitfalls" and have asked "have you looked into the Willall alternative?"
There is a lot more at play here, and with large amount of disturbing real world feedback from actual owners so far, there is reason for concern.
Again, I think ultimately, while it was done with best intentions, Nissan did not do enough testing with the specially formulated OEM transmission oil. The question is... will Nissan Corporate come to bat and admit this so that change can happen quickly and properly... or just stay mum and hope people's transmissions last until their warranties run out? The large corporate wheels are spinning, and where they stop, no one knows.
But back to your original point, no, Nissan didn't get everything right. Am I happy with the car? [censored] yes. Would I trade it in for anything else out there right now? [censored] no.
I'm not making any assumptions. Questioning is not the same as asserting.
Have you asked Nissan whether this is normal?
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: cmd51231
Wow, you are making a lot of assumptions on an issue you've clearly done 0 research on.
Originally Posted By: cmd51231
Metal shavings in pictures from actual owners changing out their transmissions when their GT-R's only have 3000 miles and have never "launched" them is not a sign of abuse. Seriously, I own this car, and I have talked to several owners who, like me, have babied their cars through the break-in period, but still opt'd to do a transmission flush... only to find their flushed liquid full of metallic shavings.
Many of them have picture proof of this.
Last edited:
Yep, DCT tranny that was specifically designed for the GT-R by Borg Warner I believe. Cutting edge technology stuff.
Shifts are amazingly quick with the paddles, especially when the car is in R tranny mode. But, like I posted previously, they shifts are quite hard and there is noticeable difference when you change out the tranny oil even if you've only just broken in the car.
And, forgive my ignorance, but where is the Dyson DMW blog? I googled it and it came back with a bunch of Dyson vacuum links.
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
I think you should stay with the M1 until you have proven to yourself that it is not working well. Since the oil is getting darker earlier than you expected, it sounds like M1 is a good match for the engine. If you switch to an oil that does not do this, then I would get worried.
The transmission is a whole different animal. Is it a DCT (dual clutch type) tranny? If so, there has been some discussion about this problem over at the Dyson DMW website blog. You might check that out if you want to know what some experts in the lube business are saying.
Last edited:
First month subscription seems to be free. I'm not subscribed, so I can't tell you how it works. Terry Dyson (the owner) is definitely a smart guy though. He used to be pretty active here on bitog before a difference of opinions with bitog owners drove him away.
The Dyson blog is $100/year. This includes one Premium UOA kit/year, as well as access to the Blog. The first month is a free trial period on the blog. You have to agree to a nondisclosure agreement before gaining access to the blog. In other words, you can't discuss what you learn there on other public forums like BITOG. I mentioned it to you because the DCT issue has been discussed on the blog. I'll leave it up to you whether you want to communicate with tribologists, chemists and formulators about your concerns.
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
I'll leave it up to you whether you want to communicate with tribologists, chemists and formulators about your concerns.
- Status
Similar threads
