Gasoline price vs electricity price

[Skippy722]

so at a 30 dollar a week saving, how long would the price difference and operating cost equalize between a gasoline F150 and a EV F150 ?

About 3 years, based on nothing but me building a ICE F-150 I’d like (a 4x4 XL super crew with a v8 and some creature comfort options) and a XLT Lightning. The F-150 came out to about $52,000 MSRP, the Lightning at $56,000.

I’m sure insurance is more for the EV, but short of going through the hassle of getting a quote I don’t know for sure.

 

[Sedin26]

Which is interesting because with Victoria being on Vancouver island, there is no gasoline production on the island and no pipelines or bridges between the mainland and the island. All gasoline is shipped by barges and perhaps tank truck ( not sure) on ferries.

Yes all gas in Victoria gets driven down on trucks from Nanaimo. It comes to Nanaimo by boat but not sure on what type of transport….possibly the out it on trucks in Nanaimo.

 

[Kiwi_ME]

My ratio is $3.055/l x 3.785g/l over $0.263 = 44, but more importantly my very small gasoline SUV costs 7 times more to fuel than the EV. That said, that savings could never cover the lost opportunity on the nz$40k added cost of purchasing the EV, without driving considerable miles/year.

But out of pocket cost is not the only consideration, especially since our electricity has a high renewable content, 94% today.

 

[Torrid]

My ratio is $3.055/l x 3.785g/l over $0.263 = 44, but more importantly my very small gasoline SUV costs 7 times more to fuel than the EV. That said, that savings could never cover the lost opportunity on the nz$40k added cost of purchasing the EV, without driving considerable miles/year.

But out of pocket cost is not the only consideration, especially since our electricity has a high renewable content, 94% today.

View attachment 188601

On cost alone my 35mpg hatchback costs 3x to drive as our EV. The problem for me is that I'm a gearhead and I'm working on throwing more power at the GTI. Fuel economy shouldn't suffer too much.

 

[Kiwi_ME]

Lol, I'm a mechanical engineer and after a year of owning the Kona EV I bought a used manual-trans 4WD only because I missed doing normal car maintenance. I love the EV but driving the ICE is like the kid's cars you find in malls that you put a coin in. Yeah, they still have 'em here.

 

[Torrid]

Lol, I'm a mechanical engineer and after a year of owning the Kona EV I bought a used manual-trans 4WD only because I missed doing normal car maintenance. I love the EV but driving the ICE is like the kid's cars you find in malls that you put a coin in. Yeah, they still have 'em here.

View attachment 189534

Missed doing maintenance.

 

[Ws6]

One of the important aspects of EV economics is the gasoline price vs the electricity price where the EV is operated. To make EV’s palatable, you want a place that has a very high gasoline price but a relatively low electricity price. For instance, California has a very high gasoline price at say $5 per gallon but also has a high electricity price at $0.30 per KWhr.

I wonder what State has the best ratio of high gasoline price per gallon but a low electricity price per kWhr. We could divide one by the other and look for the highest number. For instance, California would be 5/.30 = 16.7. What States can beat this? ( This is just for fun ).

$2.70/0.12=22.5 here in the midwest. Functionally, I drive 2500mi a month. My electric bill has gone up @ $85/mo. At 2.70/gal, that means Id need a car that got 80mpg and ran on 87 octane to equal what I get from a near 600awhp SUV/Wagon. Nothing can compete.

 

[John105]

Actually you also have to take into account the price of the vehicle and insurance that is equal in size to each technology. ICE and EV
In most all cases the EV loses.

I haven’t followed but I thought that to make a hybrid worthwhile, gasoline needed to be $5/gal. It’s never been that where I live (Pa) and we have the highest gas tax in the nation. Not even when the Ukraine war began did we hit $5. That seemed to be the big one as we briefly saw over $4.

So conventional wisdom, is EV break-even higher than hybrid, or lower? How about when slow charging is provided free, like at my workplace? There is such little demand that the building allows anyone to park where there is a charger (waste of a space if not—and they located them close to the elevators—like an added incentive to drive a ev to work).

 

[andrew_j]

If you compare the driveline performance aspects with ICE you’d be very hard pressed to find anything delivering high MPG in normal driving with the epic amount of power on tap of EV, even the “slow” EVs…..The daily usable power curve of EV is vastly superior and select few ICE motors can remotely mimick it without a sacrifice of MPG…

 

[andrew_j]

If you compare the driveline performance aspects with ICE you’d be very hard pressed to find anything delivering high MPG in normal driving with the epic amount of power on tap of EV, even the “slow” EVs…..The daily usable power curve of EV is vastly superior and select few ICE motors can remotely mimick it without a sacrifice of MPG.

I disagree with point on overall cost of electric bill for comparison. The anticipated increase is what matters since you have a fixed cost already.

 

[Torrid]

If you compare the driveline performance aspects with ICE you’d be very hard pressed to find anything delivering high MPG in normal driving with the epic amount of power on tap of EV, even the “slow” EVs…..The daily usable power curve of EV is vastly superior and select few ICE motors can remotely mimick it without a sacrifice of MPG…

This needs to be considered. If you’re not a person that values high performance then this likely will not be looked at as a positive. As an absolute gear head this is something I love. I’m going to buy something performance oriented anyway. If it’s cheaper to operate because of its efficiency that’s a bonus.

 

[alarmguy]

I haven’t followed but I thought that to make a hybrid worthwhile, gasoline needed to be $5/gal. It’s never been that where I live (Pa) and we have the highest gas tax in the nation. Not even when the Ukraine war began did we hit $5. That seemed to be the big one as we briefly saw over $4.

So conventional wisdom, is EV break-even higher than hybrid, or lower? How about when slow charging is provided free, like at my workplace? There is such little demand that the building allows anyone to park where there is a charger (waste of a space if not—and they located them close to the elevators—like an added incentive to drive a ev to work).

Hybrids are in most cases boatloads more worthwhile IF you care about price of operation.
EV break even is in most cases always higher than a hybrid.
Consumer reports did an in-depth analysis. It's not 100% but in many cases yes. Hybrids are less.
The other factor of course is convenience and different people have different requirements.

 

[Torrid]

Hybrids are in most cases boatloads more worthwhile IF you care about price of operation.
EV break even is in most cases always higher than a hybrid.
Consumer reports did an in-depth analysis. It's not 100% but in many cases yes. Hybrids are less.
The other factor of course is convenience and different people have different requirements.

That is completely dependent on the initial cost of the vehicle of course. People do weird things when they cross shop. We also were considering a Lincoln Nautilus before we had issues with a Ford product and we put a deposit down on an ID.4. It wasn't until my wife looked at couple of other vehicles that she decided she wanted an EV. In our case the hybrid was the most expensive option though the ID.4 wasn't far behind and I think it's safe to say the Lincoln is considered a bit more prestigious than a VW crossover.

It's easy enough to cross shop two similar vehicles and say which one is cheaper and then find the crossover point for cost if there is any. I just don't know if anyone legitimately does this when making a purchase. While I do consider some costs and intended use of a vehicle I've always treated buying a car as a bit of an emotional purchase. I've got to fall in love with it too. I'm wiling to admit I might be the weird one here, though my wife does it too and I really don't know that she did that before she met me, but I know with the car purchases she's made previously that she's always had a bit of a weird love for cars too.

 

[Astro_Guy]

I haven’t followed but I thought that to make a hybrid worthwhile, gasoline needed to be $5/gal. It’s never been that where I live (Pa) and we have the highest gas tax in the nation. Not even when the Ukraine war began did we hit $5. That seemed to be the big one as we briefly saw over $4.

So conventional wisdom, is EV break-even higher than hybrid, or lower? How about when slow charging is provided free, like at my workplace? There is such little demand that the building allows anyone to park where there is a charger (waste of a space if not—and they located them close to the elevators—like an added incentive to drive a ev to work).

Where I live in southeast PA with PECo as my electric utility I pay $0.18 per KWh. With my humble Ford C-Max Energi EV driving comes in at about $0.0525/mile. It's not possible to do that on gasoline.

 

[eljefino]

Gas is 2.929, electricity ~21 cents per KWh.

I did the math on my Prius Prime on how far a dollar gets me using each source. I recalculate when my electricity price changes, once per year. Right now gas would have to be $3.75-$4.00 per gallon for electricity to make sense for me. It varies because gas is better (suffers less range degradation) when it's colder out. Of course I use my marginal electricity price, most easily calculated by taking two months' bills and doing math for the spread between them.

 

[John105]

Where I live in southeast PA with PECo as my electric utility I pay $0.18 per KWh. With my humble Ford C-Max Energi EV driving comes in at about $0.0525/mile. It's not possible to do that on gasoline.

This is really making me wonder, you are right. There's no way to get a gas vehicle to 5 cents per mile for the gasoline.

Here in PA, we choose our electric provider. These are exact numbers from my PECO bill:

Monthly charge $10.52.
Distribution charges $0.07813/kWh
Distribution System Improvement $0.19
Electric Supply $0.059/KWH
Sales tax adjustment -$0.03

This means I'm at 13.713 cents per kWh, plus $10.52 plus 19 cents minus 3 cents, per month.

The supply rate is determined from shopping around.

During the pandemic, I saw something not seen in a decade. The incumbent was cheaper than all the energy brokers. So, I switched to PECO. When I decided to check June this year , I was horrified. PECO was almost 12 cents, when old rates were available such as 5.9 cents no early term fee 12 month agreement.

I'm thinking if I had an EV charging at home, I would be on pins and needles with the utility games. Because I went over 2 weeks in June paying that high rate and running the central air--they used to switch fast, but it took over 2 weeks. In my case I wasted $25--what if I had an EV....

So let's say you're paying 4 cents more per kWh (I'm in SE PA too)--what would you save by dropping your rate by 4 cents?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Around here, it's "name your poison". That's why I bit the bullet and installed solar. Right now 87* rag is down to $4.59 or so at some od the cheapie stations. Ouch and happy at the same time.

 

[Astro_Guy]

So let's say you're paying 4 cents more per kWh (I'm in SE PA too)--what would you save by dropping your rate by 4 cents?

Presently I have a contract for the installation of a 15 KW rooftop solar array. The rules of the solar game here in PA are such that you cannot choose your supplier. This makes sense becuase your local utility is required to purchase any excess solar power you produce.

Getting back to your question, my household uses 14,000 KWH/year. That four cent difference would be worth $560 per year.

 

[Astro_Guy]

Around here, it's "name your poison". That's why I bit the bullet and installed solar. Right now 87* rag is down to $4.59 or so at some od the cheapie stations. Ouch and happy at the same time.

I was touring the Virginia wine country last week and the going rate for regular 87/E10 was $2.99