edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
DPF should be inspected yearly. Any kind of removal should be fined heavily.
GPF is fine. But a lot if low hanging fruit out there to resolve first, including going after people who remove DPF.
Gasoline Particulate Filters now coming on vehicles in the US
- Thread starter OneLonelyBurrito
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GPF is fine. But a lot if low hanging fruit out there to resolve first, including going after people who remove DPF.
Ultimately it boils down to the calculations and models revolving around AGW. This is the impetus for everything. I won't be around to watch the circus and I have no vested interest so I couldn't care less.
And possibly from the plant that's making the particulate filters.
This probably doesn't meet your definition of unbiased since it was conducted by the EPA. Link It will be a struggle to find studies that aren't conducted by the EPA and or CARB, given that is who is implementing and setting the standards.
Basically what is says is that of the mobile source of PM2.5 emissions 18.4% are from gasoline vehicles, ~11.9% is from gasoline exhaust emissions and 6.5% are from brake and tire dust. Another 43.5% of mobile PM2.5 emissions are from diesel engine (on-road and off-road), although it doesn't mention it, I would guess a majority of those PM2.5 emissions for diesels are from non-DPF diesels.
But basically the study concludes that we can significantly reduce PM2.5 emissions with GPF. PM emissions with a GPF are 95% less than the same vehicle without the GPF.
Here is a presentation by MECA (Manufacturers of Emission Controls Association), while I wouldn't call it unbiased since they have skin in the game, they also aren't the EPA or CARB. But the presentation goes into the health benefits of GPF based on different levels of Light vehicle electrification.
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100% agree, DPF removal is a much larger problem. I wish my county had emission inspections for diesel but for some reason diesels are exempt but gasoline vehicles are not.
The science claiming the dangers of ultra fine particulates are weak bordering on junk.
DPF removal was a problem in my country. But not anymore... sanctions can cost up to 30K €
Actually it has nothing to do with politics. If you think dictatorship is "efficient " look at North Korea. Alot of India's air quality is getting better. If you look at the USA way back in the 30's and 40's it was very similar to how New Delhi looks today.
Gotta toss it in the burn barrel. Landfill costs $$. Burning is free.
I seriously question it costing that much, especially on an inline engine. Twice the cost on a V-engine though.
The incremental costs for a coated GPF are estimated to $266 dollars (2023 dollars) over your typical catalytic converter for a 3.0L engine.
Correct. Sadly.
People often claimed " they want to push you into an EV". Not quite true.
They dont want you to have a private car PERIOD.
Yes if my as cheap as it gets MG has it, how expendive can it be. I already got a 35k vehicle for 25k.....
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
It does have everything to do with it.
Not all dictatorships are same. All forms of government, demcoracies, partial democracies, communist regimes, theocracies, are established on certain social contract.
Even within Europe from 1945-1991, communism was vastly different from one country to another. North Korea is really, really bad comparison.
India's air quality is becoming better because technological progress is unavoidable. They go along with it. They are riding coattails. The US made an effort to curb pollution by innovating its way out of it.
Maybe I shouldn’t have singled out China but Asia as a whole and other developing nations.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
True, but except for Indonesia, they don't emit nearly as much as China, US and India. Those 3 comprise 43% of total world emissions.
Thanks for sharing. It does provide some info, but leaves many questions open. Such as:
They tested exactly 1 engine. Why specifically was this one chosen? Do they expect it to be fairly middle of the road in terms of performance? I would hope they have done more tests not basing big, expensive decisions off a single test of a single vehicle.
Of the 21 million Americans (6% of the population) live in PM2.5 nonattainment areas, which percentage of them live in proximity to a heavy load area that will not be affected by GPF filters? Areas like near the airport and container ports are known areas of high particulate, and plenty of studies show those areas have much higher prevalence of related illness. Your MECA presentation says exactly this on slide 14.
I do appreciate the data. However it is not an ROI. I have no doubt the filters work, but at what cost. Were still talking about 12% of the total - according to them. That number itself is confusing. It references another document, prepared in 2020, but refrencing a 2016 model, which the PM2.5 references a 2011 model. Best I can tell the 12% itself it based also on a model, not actual study. So were using the results of a 2011 model, and a single vehicle test, to set emissions standard policy?
Again, I appreciate the links. I think they leave many questions unanswered.
43% of emissions and 46% of global GDP? So sounds about inline?
I thought some people here maybe interested in this information, so I put together my thoughts and my understanding of GPFs into this post.
TLDR: Increasing criteria pollution regulation (NOx, NMOG, CO, PM) are driving the need to add particulate filters to the exhaust after-treatment systems. Increased complexity may cause some reliability issues but overall should be more reliable than the diesel equivalent. Adding particulate filters will lead to cleaner air and healthier humans. It will also have an impact on the motor oil specification that manufactures will use. It will increase the number of manufacturers requiring low-SAPs oils.
As some of you may know, gasoline particulate filters have been around in Europe for a few years now and the diesel equivalent (diesel particulate filter or DPF) have been on diesel’s in the United States since the 2007 model year. But it looks like GPFs are now starting to show up on mainstream gasoline vehicles in the United States. For the 2025 model year BMW and Volkswagen have included GPFs on some of their vehicles. BMW has done it on their X3 and 3 series with the B48 and B58 engines. Volkswagen has added it on their Taos with the 1.5L EA211 engine.
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For those that don’t know, a GPF (gasoline particulate filter) is a type of substrate that goes in an exhaust system to filter out soot particles. It does that by forcing the exhaust through the porous wall of a substrate. By forcing the exhaust through the wall of the substrate, it filters out most of the soot the engine creates during combustion. Substrate manufactures can play around with the porosity of the particulate filters to optimize filtering ability and back pressure. These substrates are also typically coated with a washcoat similar to or the same as a TWC (Three-way catalyst) found on every gasoline vehicle now.
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Since a GPF is a filter, it does need to be periodically cleaned through a process known as regeneration. The regeneration process works by oxidizing the soot particles that the GPF captures into CO2. The regeneration process will be slightly different on a gasoline engine compared to a diesel engine with a DPF. Gasoline engines produce significantly less soot than a diesel, so the soot loading will be significantly less and need to regenerate and clean out the particulates will also be reduced or depending on driving habits could be completely unnecessary. The soot oxidation process occurs at exhaust temperatures above 600C, which is very common on gasoline engines depending on placement of the catalysts and driving conditions. Since gasoline engines have higher exhaust temperatures but little to no available oxygen in the exhaust stream, most of the soot oxidation will occur passively during fuel cutoff deceleration. Since no combustion will be occurring, oxygen becomes available in the exhaust stream and when the temperature is above 600C, oxidation of the soot occurs. Although I’m sure the engine calibrations will have a defined active GPF regeneration strategy like on diesel engines, I imagine it only being used if someone granny cycles the car in extremely cold weather. The OEMs will also need to limit the use of active regeneration on gasoline engines because, in theory, that would increase the amount of NOx emissions. The reduction of NOx emissions by a TWC requires a rich A/F ratio so when the engine is running lean to oxidize the soot in the GPF, there will be an increase in NOx emissions.
On a diesel, they have to manually raise the exhaust temperature to the 600C target by injecting extra fuel into the exhaust so it is available to be oxidized, i.e. create heat, by the diesel oxidation catalyst that is placed in front of the DPF. Then since diesel’s run lean, the increased heat will burn the soot out over the course of the regeneration.
The addition of GPF will also have an impact on motor oils. Manufactures will start to require low-SAPs oil to protect the GPF from getting clogged early. The reason for that is, sulfated ash, phosphorus, and sulfur get captured by the filter and are unable to be burned out. Unlike soot which can be burned out, SAPS just get stuck in the particulate filter. Although, as long as the OEMs control oil consumption and size the GPF appropriately, a clogged GPF from low-SAPS oils shouldn’t be a problem.
Pros and Cons of particulate filters.
The major pro of them are less ultra fine (PM2.5) will be getting released into the air. PM2.5 is able to penetrate deep in lungs and cause damage to lung and cardiovascular system. PM2.5 is also known to increase the number of people with asthma and asthma attacks. It is also known to be a contributing factor in lung cancer too. So overall, a reduction in PM2.5 emissions is a good thing for overall health. Some testing the NIH (National Institutes of Health) did on a 2011 Ford F-150 with the 3.5 ecoboost showed between 85%-99% reduction in particulate matter emissions depending on the certification drive cycle. (FTP75, HWFET, US06)
The major con of having a GPF is the increased complexity, so there is a possible reduction in reliability.
So I see GPFs as a mixed bag of pros and cons. Hope you found this informative and interesting.
My 2021 Cayman S has a GPF on it
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