Gas Pump Ethanol Markings

[RayCJ]

A new Royal Farm gas station opened in the area and the pumps have a handle for diesel, a 2nd combined handle for regular, mid-grade and premium and a 3rd handle for ethanol fuel. The sticker clearly showed "For Flex Fuel Vehicles Only" and it also indicated ethanol content was between 51 and 85% and octane rating was 88. The fuel was 5c/gallon cheaper. What puzzles me is the wide variance in ethanol content. Yes, I know that flex vehicles should auto-adapt but, from a financial perspective, how does someone know what they're paying for?

Also, I didn't look at the ethanol nozzle but, I'm curious; are they a different diameter so it won't fit in a non-flex-fuel vehicle?

This station just opened-up and I'll have to warn the family not to accidentally fill our E10-rated vehicles with this stuff that 5c cheaper.

Thanks for any/all info about this... I do not have any flex vehicles and flex fuel stations are uncommon in my County.

Ray

 

[Skippy722]

I'm surprised it's marked as e85 but it's only 5 cents cheaper. Around here there is a separate handle for e15, it runs about 5c cheaper, but it says suitable for any car 2001 or newer.

 

[hatt]

For a nickel savings you don't need to worry about this pump again, unless you have a race car.

Edit: With an octane rating of 88 it isn't E85. Probably E15.

 

[RayCJ]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
I'm surprised it's marked as e85 but it's only 5 cents cheaper. Around here there is a separate handle for e15, it runs about 5c cheaper, but it says suitable for any car 2001 or newer.


Here's the rub... It wasn't marked as E85. It just had a sticker that said 88 octane and 51 to 85% ethanol.

 

[03cvpi]

If it's e85 and only 5 cents cheaper, give it a miss. It needs to be 30-40 cents cheaper to break even. Otherwise it will cost you more per mile to drive the vehicle than it would if using e10. E85 has an octane rating of 88 around here and so does e15, e10 is usually 87 octane.

 

[oldhp]

I think it's 100% wrong that E85 can be 51% to 83% ethanol legally. Why??? If you had advertised 87 octane fuel that was only 85 octane all heck would be raised, but e85 gets a pass.

 

[talest]

Originally Posted by oldhp
I think it's 100% wrong that E85 can be 51% to 83% ethanol legally. Why??? If you had advertised 87 octane fuel that was only 85 octane all heck would be raised, but e85 gets a pass.


Midwest states have 86 octane, something about elevation. I am not sure I would ever use it but then again, if it gets by.. but this E10 (stickers on gas pumps usually say Up To 10% Ethanol, straight gas is just about non-existent and with no way to verify it actually is what it says. Tanker that fueled it up yesterday could have been E10.)

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by oldhp
I think it's 100% wrong that E85 can be 51% to 83% ethanol legally. Why??? If you had advertised 87 octane fuel that was only 85 octane all heck would be raised, but e85 gets a pass.


Ethanol doesn't vaporize as well as gasoline, so they lower the amount in colder months. They also don't go to the full 85% to prevent over shooting it.

 

[92saturnsl2]

Originally Posted by oldhp
I think it's 100% wrong that E85 can be 51% to 83% ethanol legally. Why??? If you had advertised 87 octane fuel that was only 85 octane all heck would be raised, but e85 gets a pass.


Personally, if I were at a pump that said E85, I'd MUCH rather have 51% ethanol than 85%! More bang for the buck.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted by oldhp
I think it's 100% wrong that E85 can be 51% to 83% ethanol legally. Why??? If you had advertised 87 octane fuel that was only 85 octane all heck would be raised, but e85 gets a pass.


E85 varies in ethanol percentage as seasons change. I can't speak to other states, but Iowa has the same thing at the E85 pumps, and it can be as low as 51% in the winter, but the state mandates that summer it be no less than 70%.

And as was stated, they will usually keep the percentage below 85%, so that they don't go over on the percentage.

 

[Ws6]

I just pay the extra 20 to 30 cents for ethanol free. [censored] corn.

 

[talest]

Originally Posted by Ws6
I just pay the extra 20 to 30 cents for ethanol free. [censored] corn.


I am one of those that would say, you may be getting ethanol-free but the station may eventually get some that is regular old gas, with ethanol in it, from whatever company that sends their tankers to re-fuel the station.

How would you as the end-user know the gas in the ground is ethanol-free. Because a site says so? Have you gone to the station and asked to see the manifest for the gas they got, then somehow referenced that with the refinery to know it is non-ethanol gasoline? I've gotten some way back in the day that did indeed seem to run better, yes, but other than that, I did not really know. I think it was from the ethanolfree.com site. https://www.pure-gas.org

Quote
Please remove stations that no longer sell pure gas, even if you didn't post them!

But please don't remove stations simply because they don't sell to autos - many folks use this site to find pure gas for their boats and planes and lawnmowers and pumps and whatever.

Read the station comments carefully. The stations listed here vary in what sort of pure gas they offer: from the typical premium E0 to racing fuel supplied in cans. If you've got a long drive, give the station a call first to be sure they're still selling what you want. And please add a comment to the listing if you find out anything we should know!

 

[MNgopher]

At 88 octane, it isn't E85. Many stations sell E15 here, and it is all 88 octane. It also typically sells for 5 cents less a gallon than E10 87 octane. I have not found it to be cost effective in my application - others may find it be so.

E15 requires pump labeling advising it is only for use in 2001 and newer vehicles based on a (flawed) study that only included vehicles back to this year. As for me, unless my vehicle allows E15 blends, i would not use it.

E85 has the range on it as during cold months, they lower the ethanol content to reduce starting issues. It can be near 50% here in the dead of January.

 

[MNgopher]

Originally Posted by talest
Originally Posted by oldhp
I think it's 100% wrong that E85 can be 51% to 83% ethanol legally. Why??? If you had advertised 87 octane fuel that was only 85 octane all heck would be raised, but e85 gets a pass.


Midwest states have 86 octane, something about elevation. I am not sure I would ever use it but then again, if it gets by.. but this E10 (stickers on gas pumps usually say Up To 10% Ethanol, straight gas is just about non-existent and with no way to verify it actually is what it says. Tanker that fueled it up yesterday could have been E10.)



You are thinking of western states - never seen sub 87 octane for sale in the Midwest. The nearest I've seen it was the middle of South Dakota. There isn't enough elevation anywhere in the Midwest where sub 87 octane becomes useful...

 

[spk2000]

My 96 Grand Marquis loves a 50/50 mixture of regular and E85. Feels like 20 more hp and climbs much better. I do lose about 2 mpg.

 

[Rand]

e15 is 88 octane and UPTO 15% ethanol

e85 is around 100-105 octane

On the sheetz pumps here there is a yellow e85 pump, a blue e15 pump, a black pump for 87/89/93 octane e10

Its not possible to have a e85 fuel with 88 octane.. so either you didnt see something correctly or its mislabeled.

 

[oldhp]

I should have further explained my belief. A friend has a 1969 Road Runner with a 500c.i. engine. It was set up to run E85 fuel/100 octane. Well he got a tank of, we guess, fake E85, or E51 or what ever. Engine rattled like crazy. This is my complaint. E85 is supposed to be 100+ octane. Its advertised as such and should be that. After that he went back to pump gas premium with 110 octane race gas added in.

 

[Skippy722]

M
Originally Posted by oldhp
I should have further explained my belief. A friend has a 1969 Road Runner with a 500c.i. engine. It was set up to run E85 fuel/100 octane. Well he got a tank of, we guess, fake E85, or E51 or what ever. Engine rattled like crazy. This is my complaint. E85 is supposed to be 100+ octane. Its advertised as such and should be that. After that he went back to pump gas premium with 110 octane race gas added in.


I know a lot of guys will actually test it before pumping it for that very reason. Though the perks of running e85 on a fuel injected vehicle is you can program in a "low" octane fuel map.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by oldhp
I should have further explained my belief. A friend has a 1969 Road Runner with a 500c.i. engine. It was set up to run E85 fuel/100 octane. Well he got a tank of, we guess, fake E85, or E51 or what ever. Engine rattled like crazy. This is my complaint. E85 is supposed to be 100+ octane. Its advertised as such and should be that. After that he went back to pump gas premium with 110 octane race gas added in.

Not a problem with a modern flex-fuel engine. It might reduce performance, but the higher energy content would provide better fuel economy.

Now older carb'ed vehicles are another matter.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by talest
Originally Posted by Ws6
I just pay the extra 20 to 30 cents for ethanol free. [censored] corn.


I am one of those that would say, you may be getting ethanol-free but the station may eventually get some that is regular old gas, with ethanol in it, from whatever company that sends their tankers to re-fuel the station.

How would you as the end-user know the gas in the ground is ethanol-free. Because a site says so? Have you gone to the station and asked to see the manifest for the gas they got, then somehow referenced that with the refinery to know it is non-ethanol gasoline? I've gotten some way back in the day that did indeed seem to run better, yes, but other than that, I did not really know. I think it was from the ethanolfree.com site. https://www.pure-gas.org

Quote
Please remove stations that no longer sell pure gas, even if you didn't post them!

But please don't remove stations simply because they don't sell to autos - many folks use this site to find pure gas for their boats and planes and lawnmowers and pumps and whatever.

Read the station comments carefully. The stations listed here vary in what sort of pure gas they offer: from the typical premium E0 to racing fuel supplied in cans. If you've got a long drive, give the station a call first to be sure they're still selling what you want. And please add a comment to the listing if you find out anything we should know!

My vehicle is rated at 27mpg highway. Combined driving, if I dont romp on it too hard, my daily commute results in 28mpg or so. Using ethanol containing gas, I lose 1 or 2 mpg it seems. Reasonably easy to tell. Otherwise, I can just get a 100ml beaker, pour some fuel in, and see what separates out in a while and have exact ethanol percentages. Also, I only buy Top Tier fuel. That helps with engine life, as well as providing a bit of standardized quality control.