I'm kind of embarrassed to put this out, but I want a reality check. I've seen where people break down water into HOH and route it into their manifolds to burn concurrently with Gas. My first reaction is that its a bunch of hogwash, but interested in what some of you more knowledgeable folks think about it. The process is something anyone can do in their back yard. But does it have a ghost of a chance of actually working?
Gas from water?????
- Thread starter dustyjoe1
- Start date
- Status
Quote:
break down water into HOH
Water injection is real. But it's not combusted, if that's what you are asking.
break down water into HOH
Water injection is real. But it's not combusted, if that's what you are asking.
The problem is that electrolyzing the volume of hydrogen to actually run a car's engine would take a large electrolyzer, and it would take large amounts of electricity to accomplish that. Worse, thanks to the good old laws of thermodynamics, it takes more energy to convert water into hydrogen and oxygen than you would get back by burning it. I had this swell idea in my youth for a car you could fuel with water, whose exhaust would be water! Great idea, until I learned why it wouldn't work. Darn those laws of thermodynamics!
Not again!
*sigh*
Q.
*sigh*
Q.
Laws of thermaldynamics rule!
Q.
Q.
Dave, I thought about that, but the principle is that its piped in as a secondary combustible which adds to the fuel mix Hydrogen and oxygen. The hope is, i surmise, is to burn that mix and use less of the expensive petrol thus stretching it out and effectively improving the mileage per gallon of petrol. What made me think it unworkable was that you get two Hydrogen and one oxygen out of electrlysis and as I understand it stochyometric for hydrogen is 32:1 so I don't see off the top of my head how that would work very well...I'm trying to convince myself that this is actually possible, but so far I'm not very hopeful...
by the way as far as using more energy to get it out...you'd be scavenging electricity from your cars charging system...
by the way as far as using more energy to get it out...you'd be scavenging electricity from your cars charging system...
Last edited:
Pablo, not water injection. I'm talking about breaking down water into Hydrogen and Oxygen then using these as supplemental fuel to gasoline by introducing them into the combustion cycle.
sorry I didn't explain very well.
sorry I didn't explain very well.
Why you say "not Again"? is there a discussion elsewhere that I missed?
Kestas
Staff member
Yeah, probably two years ago or so.
You say you're trying to convince yourself that it may actually be possible. A good class or two of college thermodynamics will set you straight and convince yourself that it's impossible to realize any benefit from this endeavor.
You say you're trying to convince yourself that it may actually be possible. A good class or two of college thermodynamics will set you straight and convince yourself that it's impossible to realize any benefit from this endeavor.
Kestas, I would agree with you wholeheartedly if the system was standalone. In thermo. the majority of systems you work with are closed systems if memory serves ( its been a few years) but here the closed system in question is the automotive system. the additional hydrogen and oxygen are introduced from the outside. Thus modifying the burn characteristics and energy output of the original system. Maybe just wishful thinking but maybe just maybe...might be some benefit...admittedly, I am in dire need of a good refresher in Classical thermo...but...I disagree that anything is entirely impossible...sometimes you just need to dig a little deeper. I say this with all due respect of course and I do value your imput.
r.
r.
furgoon, Thanks for the link. Will check it out.
The problem here is most view the hydrogen as a fuel gas, sort of like propane, but instead you should view hydrogen as a carrier of energy, as in a battery. Its the carbon that gives you the volume of power. In the 60s GM wanted a car to "run" on hydrogen and the techs got a regulator at Sears and the engine ran on H2, but it is very inefficient. The most common way to produce hydrogen is the steam reformation of natural gas ( METHANE ). So you have to have a gas supply, heat up some water for steam, compress your hydrogen, then use it, very wastefull. As far as doing it in your backyard, as a purveyor of H2 for 25 years, I gotta say... fugedaboutit.
Do you guys think the oil companies had Stan Meyer eliminated?
http://waterpoweredcar.com/stanmeyer.html
http://waterpoweredcar.com/stanmeyer.html
Kestas
Staff member
Originally Posted By: furgoon
http://www.aquatune.com/index.asp
A 25% increase in mileage!!... Somebody better tell the engineers in Detroit that they're wasting their time, and all they have to do is add one of these to every vehicle to meet the new CAFE standards!!... Problem solved!!
Quote:
http://waterpoweredcar.com/stanmeyer.html
Interesting story... good stuff for a grade B hollywood movie.
http://www.aquatune.com/index.asp
A 25% increase in mileage!!... Somebody better tell the engineers in Detroit that they're wasting their time, and all they have to do is add one of these to every vehicle to meet the new CAFE standards!!... Problem solved!!
Quote:
http://waterpoweredcar.com/stanmeyer.html
Interesting story... good stuff for a grade B hollywood movie.
bamaro, I'm still in the early stages of researching that...but what i've read so far is that the car's charging system should be adequate to do the job, being its not the primary fuel, the volume need not be that high. Another thought which crossed my mind but I haven't run accross in the litereture so far is using energy from braking to charge a battery which can later be used to fire the elecrolytic process. Some of the links provided by the people here, if followed lead to some interesting places.
OK, I read most of the previous discussion and although the principle appears to have some merit, There needs to be some serious development to overcome some of the difficulties in making this work. Too bad...sounded interesting. Guess I'll take H2Guru's advice "forgetaboutit" Thanks for all the input guys.
r.
r.
JTK
$100 Site Donor 2025
It's just not cost effective at this time. My company designed, built and operates the H2 filling station at LAX. It does 'generate' gaseous H2 by electrolysis. It's a VERY low volume process. Basically the 'plant' just charges up a bank of receivers. The receivers fill up, the plant stops. There's only a handful of fuel cell'd cars in the LA area that use it (I think they are MBs). It was a big'ol PR/experimental type deal. Our tech runs out there maybe once a week to fill up a car or two, do PM work, etc.
Joel
Joel
- Status
Similar threads
