Garage (Shop) build thoughts - pre-planning

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Oct 20, 2005
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Scruffy City
I'm interested in thoughts / experiences with this. If I proceed with it now, I will need it finished reasonably quickly so I'll likely have someone handle it start to finish.

I've requested quotes from:

A well known post frame metal building company.​
A recommended local contractor for stick built.​

I have an area leveled and coated with crushed gravel, this was installed by the previous owner. I am wanting to use it in part but might prefer modifications.

Though I will not install it immediately I want to accommodate a lift.

The well known building company says they are familar with this, but can't (at least from preliminary conversations) customize the trusses for extra clearance, the walls will have to be taller to accommodate.​
The local contractor says he is pretty sure he can have trusses custom designed for additional clearance, he's unfalialar with the concrete requirements for lifts (he hasn't discussed with his concrete contractor though) I'm assuming I can pull some information from some one like Rotary to help?​

I would prefer to shorten the walls and create additional clearance inside with custom trusses, but I would love to hear any thoughts or experience on this.

I expect the stick built structure will be cheaper, but don't have anything other than "guesstimates" based on preliminary phone conversations.

IMG_4400.jpeg


I am thinking that I would prefer to remove the wood ties and build concrete block / CMU sides straight up, i'll obviously remove the two trees on the far side. (and the brush LOL) I have two thoughts about the chopped corner on the far side, one being to build it out, the other being to put a lean to / storage / compressor back there.

This area is 28 x 33 inside the ties to the forward portion of the chopped corner there is a bout 6 feet back to rear wall, I believe if we built walls straight up, it would accommodate 30x40.

I will want electrical, and may want to run water to it for a hand washing sink (but not a bath room) i always hear plumbing complicates the expense and permitting, but not sure how true that is.

This are was used to park a truck and RV, there is 220V available under the deck (there is a box with an RV plug), so I am thinking that could be used to supply power through a proper underground conduit to the garage.

So tell me your thoughts and what you might do with the area for a hobby shop type set up.
 
If you're going to run water and a drain, why not a toilet, too? Are you on septic or city sewer? You'll need electricity for lighting and A/C in the summer and heat in the winter. If you're going to spend the money, do it up!

One of my neighbors built something like this. It looks like a cabin in the backyard. He doesn't use it for cars but looks like he makes wooden furniture and small wooden boats in the cabin. He has A/C and heat. His wife might have kicked him out of the main house and he might be living in the cabin.
 
If you're going to run water and a drain, why not a toilet, too? Are you on septic or city sewer? You'll need electricity for lighting and A/C in the summer and heat in the winter. If you're going to spend the money, do it up!

Not a bad point, will discuss cost with contractors.

County sewer and I kind of think it is at the back of the lot...
 
If you're going to run water and a drain, why not a toilet, too? Are you on septic or city sewer? You'll need electricity for lighting and A/C in the summer and heat in the winter. If you're going to spend the money, do it up!
Because you can discharge grey water from hand washing to the yard potentially, while a sewer hookup is a more difficult ordeal.

OP, maybe it’s me but the pad doesn’t look that big. As someone with around 16 garages and one that’s 25x40, I’d say you want extra width. Make sure the doors are extra wide so it’s easy to pull anything in or out from any direction.

I watched on CL for a while very low cost installed steel buildings. They seemed like small businesses who just knew how to execute a build on site. They were engineered, stamped, etc. so I’d look at steel if it matches the look of your area. In many places it doesn’t match well though.

I would look into the prospect of a standard pad, then the ability to cut out much deeper areas for super strong mounting pads for a lift. I’d almost say start with a gravel floor, but it gets tough rolling around on that.

I personally have old buildings so no HVAC. Climate and how hard you’ll really be working out there in the extremes of summer and winter dictate the necessity. It’s expensive to heat a poorly insulated structure in the winter. My 6kW heater barely makes a dent in my 20x30ish in insulated space in the winter. I’d personally avoid hvac, it’s a garage, not a luxury lounge. Spend money on compressors and lifts, not insulation and heat IMO.

WRT trusses, look on garage journal. I recall seeing on there various discussions about making height by strengthening the ties in different ways. In one of my garages I did remove a rafter tie near where my truck on a kwik lift would hit. I sistered the rafters, then I moved it to the next one so the ties weren’t every other, and I added collar ties and a partway rafter tie (I know they aren’t/aren’t useful if more than halfway up) in its place. I’m comfortable with the mods. Others may not like the concept. For a new build it’s best to get a properly engineered truss IMO.

Also consider a higher building with a loft.
 
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Because you can discharge grey water from hand washing to the yard potentially, while a sewer hookup is a more difficult ordeal.

Yes I thought of this, i believe it is legal here, the thought of recovering rain water from the gutters and using it for hand washing also crossed my mind. These are questions i'll need to discuss with contractors.

OP, maybe it’s me but the pad doesn’t look that big. As someone with around 16 garages and one that’s 25x40, I’d say you want extra width. Make sure the doors are extra wide so it’s easy to pull anything in or out from any direction.

The pad isn't symmetrical with respect to the ties buried, the side in the foreground is shorter than the far side. It is essentially level in the area though. Also will pour concrete out the the drive way. This picture was taken from the rear deck of my house, Im thinking a man door just about where that tie ends.

I watched on CL for a while very low cost installed steel buildings. They seemed like small businesses who just knew how to execute a build on site. They were engineered, stamped, etc. so I’d look at steel if it matches the look of your area. In many places it doesn’t match well though.

I would look into the prospect of a standard pad, then the ability to cut out much deeper areas for super strong mounting pads for a lift. I’d almost say start with a gravel floor, but it gets tough rolling around on that.

I looked up Rotary lift requirements, they require 3000 psi concrete 4.5 inches thick, overhead clearance for a standard 10,000 lb asymmetric lift is 12'. It appears the 4 post requires the same. I wouldn't want a 4 post for work, though one might later be added for stacking.

Im not opposed to a steel building, but I want a quality building that can be insulated and will hold up. I want to be able the customize it to some degree and would actually like to be able to have the front brick/siding to match the house.

One of the reasons i'm contemplating this in the more immediate rather than a more DIY future project is to eliminate some storage units from the move. What i'm paying to rent storage would pay for the building... so the concrete is a given. Though the post frame building can be built on gravel and have concrete later.

I personally have old buildings so no HVAC. Climate and how hard you’ll really be working out there in the extremes of summer and winter dictate the necessity. It’s expensive to heat a poorly insulated structure in the winter. My 6kW heater barely makes a dent in my 20x30ish in insulated space in the winter. I’d personally avoid hvac, it’s a garage, not a luxury lounge. Spend money on compressors and lifts, not insulation and heat IMO.

I probably won't do HVAC at least not immediately, if i did it would be a mini split.

WRT trusses, look on garage journal. I recall seeing on there various discussions about making height by strengthening the ties in different ways. In one of my garages I did remove a rafter tie near where my truck on a kwik lift would hit. I sistered the rafters, then I moved it to the next one so the ties weren’t every other, and I added collar ties and a partway rafter tie (I know they aren’t/aren’t useful if more than halfway up) in its place. I’m comfortable with the mods. Others may not like the concept. For a new build it’s best to get a properly engineered truss IMO.

Also consider a higher building with a loft.

It would be nice to have at least a small loft mostly for storage.
 
How much room do you have next to the existing pad?

I would think that the contractors building it would prefer to ensure groundwork is done right. I recently built a 32 X 40 garage. They built it on a 4 foot ICF frost wall. I went with 12 foot high walls, and two 12 wide X 10 high overhead doors. Hardieplank exterior, metal interior. The ground work & foundation were about 1/3 the total cost of the building. They needed a substantial amount of backfill/ packing sand to fill in the pad area. The building inspector for my area was pushing towards the frost wall over the thickened edge slab. If I cut back to 1200 square feet or less they would have allowed the thickened edge slab. The ICF is nice in the freezing Saskatchewan climate, & there is no frost buildup in interior corners, which a co-worker is experiencing with his thickened edge slab.
The cost of the foundation was quite a bit higher than the original quote for the slab, but now that the landscaping and concrete apron is complete I am glad I done it right.


You might want to build your shop to the right of your existing pad if the space is there.

Always nice to have outdoor parking for stuff that doesn't need to be stored inside
 
If you can make one side tall enough to house an RV you can put a 10x14 door on it and be able to get anything into it easily and you could have 2 lifts in there if you wanted to.
 
How much room do you have next to the existing pad?

A little, it basically has to go here, i could enlarge the area a bit, but the driveway is directly in front of this.

I would think that the contractors building it would prefer to ensure groundwork is done right. I recently built a 32 X 40 garage. They built it on a 4 foot ICF frost wall. I went with 12 foot high walls, and two 12 wide X 10 high overhead doors. Hardieplank exterior, metal interior. The ground work & foundation were about 1/3 the total cost of the building. They needed a substantial amount of backfill/ packing sand to fill in the pad area. The building inspector for my area was pushing towards the frost wall over the thickened edge slab. If I cut back to 1200 square feet or less they would have allowed the thickened edge slab. The ICF is nice in the freezing Saskatchewan climate, & there is no frost buildup in interior corners, which a co-worker is experiencing with his thickened edge slab.
The cost of the foundation was quite a bit higher than the original quote for the slab, but now that the landscaping and concrete apron is complete I am glad I done it right.

Yes, Im not of the illusion that I can just build on top of this, at least not anymore. I know site work will need to be done. I'll go out if it ever stops raining and see if i can get an idea of how much lager straight up walls would make it.

On GJ it was suggested to allow a walkway all the way around, which is a thought it would quite obviously reduce the available foot print for the building.

If you can make one side tall enough to house an RV you can put a 10x14 door on it and be able to get anything into it easily and you could have 2 lifts in there if you wanted to.

I doubt that I will ever be putting an RV in it, though i might want a taller than average door. My initial thought is a double wide door.

My house is not that big and I don't want the shop to be over powering or out of proportion, id prefer to do the shortest possible side walls that will give me the interior clearance for a lift. I note that there is something called a coffer truss that might do this.

Where the lift is concerned i do not think i will ever lift anything heavier than an F150, so i think 10K should do me.
 
Heres some additional photos. The Sat image perspective is slightly off but hopefully can help with what I'm working with.

Scruffy.jpeg


SatOfHome.jpg
 
A note about a pole barn construction. They can be very loud when raining, unless you invest in insulation.

Good luck with the project.
 
It’s exciting I’m sure to get this going. Never had the opportunity and more over had the free funds. Not sure if this is a garage for tinkering/parking a hobby/classic car or for some hard core projects but make sure you’ve considered the lift/vehicle height as well as enough room for an engine hoist or beam for a chain fall. Then enough work area (bench, tool boxes, press) etc for engine/trans/component rebuilds. With the improvements in electric tools and electric lifts a large air compressor isn’t necessary. A really good floor drain would be great for wash downs and certainly a well sealed floor for spills etc. Just my .02
 
I think garage doors only come in 7ft, 8ft and 14ft tall
Steelcraft garage panels come in 21 or 24 inch size panels, so you can use any combination of 21 or 24 to get your door size. they prefer a minimum of 12 inches headroom inside, but they do have a low headroom kit.

4 x 21 inch panels will get you a 7 foot opening, 6 will get you 10.5 foot opening.
they can be used in combination with 2 x 21 inch panels used to get 3.5 feet to build a 9.5 foot opening (3X24) + (2X21)

The rough opening needs to be built the same size as the dimensions of the door.
 
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Another thing to add, if you plan on putting a beam in the rafters to support a load, hanging a deer or moose for skinning/ butcher you need to advise the truss manufacturers. I assumed I could just install a 10 foot beam of three 2X6 across 5 rafters, & install some eye bolts, but the building inspector made me remove it.

I was planning on putting something like this in more to aid in unloading & ceiling storage of a kayak, but they didn't like it. Tried contacting the truss manufacturers after the fact to see if anything could be done to allow this change & they weren't very accommodating.
If you were thinking of maybe installing roof solar panels or anything extra in the future, let the builders know.
 
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