G-05 vs GREEN how harsh are they on a heater core?

[Fordiesel69]

My question will deal only with the old traditional green vs the newer G-05 in either Zerex or Motorcraft brand. I am not interested in bringing universal or dexcool into this discussion as I will NEVER use them.

On most of my fords, the engine and cooling system did NOT appear to change at all when they made the switch to G-05 in 2002. My 99 crown vic cooling system has all the same part numbers as the 2002. So this tells me there is no difference.

Everthing on the cooling system is very easy to change out with the exception of the heater core. So I would not feel bad if the raditor or oil cooler fails being they take like 15 mins to change.

What I want to know, is what coolant technology would attack the heater core more aggesivly? Which also includes descaling the buildup out of it, green or G-05? I buy lots of auction cars that may have either type of coolant, and I want to install the coolant the will prolong the heater core life the most.

Also if a car was overrun on green, will putting G-05 in it cause anything to spring a leak?

 

[Big Jim]

I can't answer all of your questions, but Ford, in their Motorcraft publications, show that Ford Gold (G05) can be used in most Fords from 99 and newer. I personally think it can pretty much be used on anything that originally came with green. It is probably the closest thing to a truly "universal" coolant there is.

 

[bdcardinal]

with fords it seems to not be an issue of coolant type, but electrolysis that causes the heater cores to leak so much. we do an equal amount on cars with the yellow vs green coolant. there are TSBs for ground strapping the heater core, but the best ways we have found are to use a brass heater core. in extreme cases you have to replace the motor. we have also had customers run the Evans waterless coolant.

 

[onion]

Hmmm... a ground strap... who'd've thought?

 

[Fordiesel69]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
with fords it seems to not be an issue of coolant type, but electrolysis that causes the heater cores to leak so much. we do an equal amount on cars with the yellow vs green coolant. there are TSBs for ground strapping the heater core, but the best ways we have found are to use a brass heater core. in extreme cases you have to replace the motor. we have also had customers run the Evans waterless coolant.


Ford then revised their TSB to say not to use the ground strap becuase it will allow the current to go directly to the core. When you say replace the motor, do you mean blower motor or engine? Why would you replace the engine due to electrolysis?

Also why doesn;t the vendor just make the core slightly thicker like back in the old days. If cutting the cost makes it less durable, why not spend and extra $0.25 to make it better.

Also I heard the coolant can be a direct cause of electrolysis. Can someone explain how this is?

 

[Jason2007]

If I am not mistaken electrolysis is caused because of the contact between dissimilar metals and the coolant is a conductor of electricity.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: Fordiesel69
Ford then revised their TSB to say not to use the ground strap becuase it will allow the current to go directly to the core. When you say replace the motor, do you mean blower motor or engine? Why would you replace the engine due to electrolysis?

Also why doesn;t the vendor just make the core slightly thicker like back in the old days. If cutting the cost makes it less durable, why not spend and extra $0.25 to make it better.

Also I heard the coolant can be a direct cause of electrolysis. Can someone explain how this is?


engine engine, due to excessive electrolysis.

its worth it to make the part cheaper because the majority will not leak, and the ones that do leak they just have to replace for 12mo 12k miles before the service part warranty is up.

 

[Steve S]

To continue, the electrolsis is caused by dissimilar metals and the weaker metal "less nobel"looses atoms to the stronger "more nobel". Anyway the coolant is left too long in the system turns acid and two dissimilar metals with acid makes a battery. There are guys on this board who are more grounged is chemestry than I will ever be so hopefully I will get squared away on this reply. I would say keeping the coolant changed out before it turns too acid is the thing to do .

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
To continue, the electrolsis is caused by dissimilar metals and the weaker metal "less nobel"looses atoms to the stronger "more nobel". Anyway the coolant is left too long in the system turns acid and two dissimilar metals with acid makes a battery. There are guys on this board who are more grounged is chemestry than I will ever be so hopefully I will get squared away on this reply. I would say keeping the coolant changed out before it turns too acid is the thing to do .


You're right, but I don't think this is the process at work with "ground straps" being the fix.

What's at work there is more like electroplating. When ground straps are too few in number or start developing high resistance, the conductive coolant can actually become the ground path for some devices. If the heater has a bad ground and there's an electrical load at that point, the heater "ground" will elevate above the ground of the rest of the body. This will make the block and heater at different potentials, and the coolant is a conduction path between them.

One metal will be sacrificed and plated onto the other based on the electrical loads present. In addition I'd expect you'll also get electrolysis of the water in the coolant mix too, adding hydrogen and oxygen to the system.

In this case instead of becoming a battery due to acidic coolant, it's actually applied power from the vehicle's electrical system which breaks down the metals involved. This can happen with brand new coolant mix.

You can supposedly check for this by running the vehicle and turning on all heavy electrical loads. With a voltmeter, put one probe in the coolant and the other at various "grounded" points and look for a significant voltage reading. I'm not sure where the borderline to "significant" occurs without consulting some references.

 

[Rolf]

Originally Posted By: Fordiesel69
My question will deal only with the old traditional green vs the newer G-05 in either Zerex or Motorcraft brand. ....

On most of my fords, the engine and cooling system did NOT appear to change at all when they made the switch to G-05 in 2002. My 99 crown vic cooling system has all the same part numbers as the 2002. So this tells me there is no difference. ....


The G-05 combines a single OAT, and not the one that DexCool uses that dissolves plastic, a nitrite for diesels, and a very low amount of silicate.

A friend who ran a radiator shop tipped me 10 or more years ago that he had stopped using anything but Mercedes coolant - which is what G-05 is - for ALL his jobs and returns had basically ceased.

I deal with a mixed fleet of Honda, GM, Toyota, and some stray dogs and we use G-05 as replacement fill in all of them.

It's about as close to universal as I've seen.

 

[1 FMF]

if i had to guess I would say G05 would have higher heater core survival rate because it's a long life coolant and low silicate, and if you look at zerex website specs they list performances for the copper/brass/solder metals.
Cars with the traditional green are only good for a 3yr/30k miles so if the coolant hasn't been changed then that's cause for corrosion, also the silicates I thought did more for scale buildup than prevent it hence the move to low/no silicate formulations.

afaik going from traditional green to G05 is a no brainer, do it. They're both ethylene glycol, both compatible, the difference is G05 is low silicate (a benefit) and the OAT is mostly compatible- the only problem is if a lot of green coolant gets mixed in with G05 it reduces G05's lifespan so you either change it sooner or flush the system better before using g05.

 

[Fordiesel69]

Good to know. My dad and I just got 2 more crown vics and my 00 has nasty overdue green in it which I will swap for G-05, and my dads 04 appears to have brand new green in it becuase the degas bottle is nasty but the coolant is a very brite green. The cylinder had overtemp code was in the computer as well which means that probably just did the flush and never purged the system, so it flashed some steam up to the sensors. I will prpbably leave it alone until winter is over and then have him make the switch to G-05 because thats what it calls for anyways.

 

[Chris142]

Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Originally Posted By: Steve S
To continue, the electrolsis is caused by dissimilar metals and the weaker metal "less nobel"looses atoms to the stronger "more nobel". Anyway the coolant is left too long in the system turns acid and two dissimilar metals with acid makes a battery. There are guys on this board who are more grounged is chemestry than I will ever be so hopefully I will get squared away on this reply. I would say keeping the coolant changed out before it turns too acid is the thing to do .
I have a customer that comes in every 20K for a new Radiator and heater core in his Excursion.

I've done everything including cleaning grounds, unplugging and plugging in every connection, running ground wires to everything and it still eats a heater and a radiator every 20k.

I'm like the 5th shop to try to fix this one. He does not have any extra electrical devices in it.

One thing that is odd is that I flushed it and added distilled water and green antifreeze.............With the negative battery cable disconnected I still get .6V in the coolant.

You're right, but I don't think this is the process at work with "ground straps" being the fix.

What's at work there is more like electroplating. When ground straps are too few in number or start developing high resistance, the conductive coolant can actually become the ground path for some devices. If the heater has a bad ground and there's an electrical load at that point, the heater "ground" will elevate above the ground of the rest of the body. This will make the block and heater at different potentials, and the coolant is a conduction path between them.

One metal will be sacrificed and plated onto the other based on the electrical loads present. In addition I'd expect you'll also get electrolysis of the water in the coolant mix too, adding hydrogen and oxygen to the system.

In this case instead of becoming a battery due to acidic coolant, it's actually applied power from the vehicle's electrical system which breaks down the metals involved. This can happen with brand new coolant mix.

You can supposedly check for this by running the vehicle and turning on all heavy electrical loads. With a voltmeter, put one probe in the coolant and the other at various "grounded" points and look for a significant voltage reading. I'm not sure where the borderline to "significant" occurs without consulting some references.

 

[Fordiesel69]

Chris, if this a diesel? If so what engine 7.3 or 6.0? There wouldn't happen to be one of those special rust preventive boxes anywhere is there? Does he had any LED tail light or other lighting?

 

[robot]

Originally Posted By: 1 FMF
if i had to guess I would say G05 would have higher heater core survival rate because it's a long life coolant and low silicate, and if you look at zerex website specs they list performances for the copper/brass/solder metals.
Cars with the traditional green are only good for a 3yr/30k miles so if the coolant hasn't been changed then that's cause for corrosion, also the silicates I thought did more for scale buildup than prevent it hence the move to low/no silicate formulations.

afaik going from traditional green to G05 is a no brainer, do it. They're both ethylene glycol, both compatible, the difference is G05 is low silicate (a benefit) and the OAT is mostly compatible- the only problem is if a lot of green coolant gets mixed in with G05 it reduces G05's lifespan so you either change it sooner or flush the system better before using g05.


green coolant is not necessarily high silicate. any green coolant found in japanese cars is a low silicate formula. Subaru green and regular Peak are low silicate.