Fuel System Additives/Ping Elimination

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190
I had ping under a light throttle in my Dakota. It's a common problem on some of the Mopar Magnum engines. About 5 years ago I fixed it, by using a different degree thermostat and a colder spark plug.

This past spring, I did tune-up on my truck and this time went with the factory heat range spark plug. I thought the ping might come back on a stock heat range plug, but so far I still have no ping at all, under any condition.

I have been adding MMO to my gas at every fill-up for about 2 years now. I have also added it to my oil a few times, mostly during the cooler months. It doesn't really get "cold" here in Florida, but we do have a few days in January and February with the high temps around 45 or 50.

I have a theory, no I can't prove it so please don't ask for proof, but I have an idea that the constant use of MMO and an occasional dose of Red Line or Regane has cleaned the carbon from my pistons and the use MMO in my fuel on every tank has kept the pistons and cylinders clean so no carbon has re-formed, therefore I have no ping now on a stock plug. I bet I still would have no ping even if I went back to a stock thermostat too.

I have no way to prove my theory. I admit it. Some people here always demand scientific evidentiary proof whenever one of us posts that we got a good result from the use of MMO, otherwise the improvement or gains may as well not have happened at all. I have no proof other than the fact I have no ping and am using a stock heat NGK plug.

This may not help the OP. I realize that a 6 cylinder Dodge engine is very different from an 8 cylinder Ford, and it could have taken a year or a little longer for the MMO to clean my pistons and cylinders. I do not think an initial use of MMO will solve the OP's ping problem. Over time the use of MMO could help him but it seems to me from reading his post that he wants to find a cure now.

I have no way to know how long it took for MMO to help with my carbon/ping problem. I do believe MMO is the reason I have no ping now though. My truck has almost 147K on it now. It runs great, no ping at all and has a nice smooth even idle. I attribute that to my own regular and often ahead-of-schedule maintenance and the use of MMO in every tank.


Hey Jimmy, don't let them scare you off, if the product worked for you post your comments and findings. If it failed shout it out too. This information can benefit someone else who is willing to try something out of the box because the data isn't available, or they've read enough credible testimony to try it for themselves. This is just another way to learn, and share.

 

[motorguy222]

Have you checked the EGR valve? The valve istself can move and seem to work but the passages can be plugged.

 

[mechtech2]

If it historically did not ping, then something changed.
EGR systems have to be working right - this is #1 for part throttle pinging.
IS she running hotter than normal? You may not read this on the gauge. A new thermostat can fix her up. Cleaning the radiator [outside] can help.
Is the air intake getting hot air or under hood air? If it has a cold air routing, use it.
Do you have a Knock sensor? Check it out.

Are you setting the timing right? Often there are steps and things to disconnect first.

If all else fails, try 8 instead of 10.
I prefer using better fuel - it kinda pays for itself.

 

[qdeezie]

Well, I just turned it down to 8 instead of 10 and the pinging is gone.

One of the few electronic items I haven't replaced is the Knock Sensor.

I replaced the EGR valve about 6 months ago. Not because the old one was defective, but because parts for the truck are so cheap. I've replaced every electronic component and most mechanical components under the hood except the injectors and the knock sensor.

Here's what I'm going to do:

1) Keep timing at 8 degrees for now
2) Use 6oz of MMO per tank moving forward
3) Power Foam each cylinder when the next oil change is due.
4) Attempt to bump the timing back up to 10 degrees (I'd like to run it at 13 to 16 to be honest, but I'll take 10.)

I would do the power foam now, but I just put Pennzoil Ultra in it about 2 days ago and would like to get 7,000 miles out of it before changing it. Had I not changed the oil, I would've power foamed it immediately.

If I had the time, I'd just pull the heads off and clean it by hand. Time is one of the things that are not on my side when certain jobs are on the table.

Thoughts?

 

[mechtech2]

If the pinging is on light or partial throttle, the EGR system may be the fault. [has low or no flow]
The EGR has little or no effect at full throttle in this respect.

 

[kr_bitog]

Originally Posted By: qdeezie
So, my truck has developed a ping under load and I've pretty much done everything to ensure that it's nothing on the outside of the engine that I can immediately correct (timing set to 10 degrees, spark plug type, spark plug wire routing, etc.).

I did the Seafoam treatment on my truck twice and the smoke show both times would be very impressive for Halloween purposes, so this lets me know that there is carbon in the combustion chambers/piston tops that is creating the ping.

I really like Gumout Regane High Mileage and I've used it twice, but the ping is still there, so it’s time to go to something a bit more extreme on working on carbon.

I'm not going to use 93 octane gas because that is a band-aid fix and not a true fix. Also, a piston soak would fix it, but that’s not exactly something I want to do on a V8. If it was a 4cyl, I would soak it overnight and be done with it.

Can someone recommend a fuel system additive that will work on this carbon buildup? A few come to mind, but my sole focus here is ping elimination.

I've heard that a bad cat also creates ping, so I'm not ruling that out.

Here’s what immediately comes to mind to put in the tank:

-B-12 Chemtool
-MMO
-Lucas Deep Clean – Yea yea, I know, simmer down I’m just asking a question! The bottle says eliminate knocking and pinging, so that’s why I listed it here.
-Techron
-Redline SL-1
-Seafoam

Suggestions (fuel treatment or otherwise) are welcome.


In my experience, sometimes the cause of pinging is not combustion chamber deposit, sometimes it is the dirty injector. Unfortunately, sometimes the full strength injector cleaner will help better than fuel system cleaner. Once the injector restored, the maintenance can be continued with regular SI-1 treatment or techron-loaded fuel. If the suspect is combustion chamber deposit, the best is to take out the plug, and spray throttle body cleaner inside before install back the plug. So far the techron-loaded fuel gives the smoothest stable idle and extended period before the injector getting fouled.
Well that what I've learnt to be the most effective.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
If the pinging is on light or partial throttle, the EGR system may be the fault. [has low or no flow]
The EGR has little or no effect at full throttle in this respect.


I think EGR system servicing on top of his current approach would be advisable.

If he chooses to use Power Foam, in each cylinder it will be relatively hard to use as a true piston soak, but is doable.

If MAF equipped, definitely avoid that if doing the spray in/let soak at full-temp method.

 

[steve20]

I am also of the opinion it may be your EGR. In the old days (pre-computer tuning) we used to take a ball bearing and plug the vacuum line to the EGR to make the engine run better-this was when they just stuck an EGR valve on the engine and it caused all types of driveability issues. To Test the EGR, either pull a vacuum on it and see if it holds, or block off the vacuum source to the valve by a ball bearing, golf tee, or even a pencil. If the pinging gets worse, you can be reasonably assured the EGR valve is OK. If no changes to the pinging, I would suspect something in the EGR system-actuating solenoid, vacuum leak, or stuck EGR valve

 

[ahoier]

Definitely a supporter of the easiest-fix-first

Any CELs? If so, get those taken care of....my Aries had a bunch of codes that popped up about the second week I bought it, all pointing everywhere, the MAP sensor, to the EGR valve, etc.....so I put whatever I could find into the tank since I've heard the EGR's are extremely prone to getting gummed up. Anyways, took the car to a shop and a bunch of my vacuum lines were dry rotted and cracked near the intake manifold....so they replaced them, cleaned up the throttle body (said it was carboned up, likely from driving with the huge vacuum leak + high fuel mixture....) and it's been running good.

And here, I was just gonna go and replace the EGR and MAP sensors myself....luckily I didn't go part swapping, cause it wouldn't have fixed the problem anyways

So yea, check for any CEL codes first.

if you don't have any codes, I'd try a can of the Berryman's B-12 CHEMTOOL, at 1 oz. per gallon of fuel....

Don't matter how you mix it, I personally just dump the 16 oz. can into the tank, and then fill up the 16 gallon tank

Easy as pie, and ensures it gets mixed good. B-12 is some stout stuff, so if it's a "gunked up" problem, B-12 would be the one to fix it for sure.....and if it don't fix it? Then I wanna say it's almost certainly soemthing "mechanical".....i.e.: under the hood, sensor, or something not working properly.

 

[qdeezie]

No CELs present on the truck. When I first bought the truck, I replaced nearly every sensor/solenoid under the hood with the exception of the knock sensor, TAB and TAD solenoid.

List of what I replaced:
-Distributor (New)
-Ignition Module
-MAP Sensor
-ECT Sensor
-ACT Sensor
-IAC Valve
-Every vacuum hose replaced with rubber hose and vacuum T's.
-EGR Valve
-EGR Valve Position Sensor
-Spark Plugs
-Spark Plug Wires
-EGR Differential Pressure Solenoid
-Oil Pressure Switch
-Starter Solenoid
-O2 Sensor

I did purchase new parts along the way that were defective (EGR Position Sensor and IAC Valve), but the truck runs really good for the most part and the pinging went away when I turned down the timing to 8 degrees, so that's why I was thinking it was combustion chamber carbon related.

 

[ahoier]

I'd give the B-12 Chemtool a shot.....just follow the directions. The maximum concentration is 1 oz. per gallon of gas......so either take the take to near empty, then pour it in at the pump, then pump allowing the B-12 CHEMTOOL to mix up good

If that doesn't fix it, it's gotta be something mechanical....the CHEMTOOL is extremely stout, so it would be able to cut the crud.

Or, you could try a Throttle Body/Intake cleaning job at one of the local mechanic joints......

 

[qdeezie]

Ok........well, after some extensive research, it was the EGR valve after all.

I replaced the EGR valve a good while back, but was given the one for the 4.9L Ford, which fit, but was a different part number from the 5.0L Ford. I haven't taken the 4.9L EGR valve off yet (I will be doing so as soon as I dig up the EGR valve that came on the truck - it was nothing wrong with it, replaced it because it was cheap), but I'm sure this is the problem, especially given the EGR codes I received when using my scan tool.

I feel like a complete idiot, especially given how anal I am about checking part numbers on the manufacturer's website. The one time I didn't do it came back to bite me in the rear.

Thanks to everyone that chimed in.

 

[morris]

colder spark plugs

 

[Clevy]

Acetone. 1 ounce per 10 liters