Top Tier ONLY in new car that has 60k miles now...

[j_mac]

I bought a new Hyundai Accent in June 2011. It was one of the first of the new 2012 body styles to be imported. It has the direct injection engine.
The car has always had Top Tier gasoline burnt in it.
At about 25,000 miles the car developed occasional part throttle ping when climbing hills. Now, with almost 60,000 on the clock, the car pings quite a lot and frequently when under even a mild load. It seems to be getting worse.
I can only assume the problem is that there are deposits forming on the piston crown and combustion chamber that have increased the already high mechanical compression ratio of 11:1 even further and the carbon deposits have a slight glow-plug effect, and that is what is causing this problem. Top Tier gas is SUPPOSED to reduce these deposits and prevent them from forming significantly.
So is Top Tier a bunch of lies? Are the gas stations I'm using cheating and secretly buying fuel from their suppliers that doesn't have the Top Tier additive package put into the delivery truck?
The car didn't ping AT ALL for the first 20,000mi. I'm using Shell and Exxon gas almost exclusively, and when that's not available I drive out of the way to get another top tier brand. I'm using Quaker State Ultimate Durability Synthetic motor oil. Could the pinging problem have something to do with the direct injection, or is there some other explanation.
Any ideas?
I always use 87 octane, as this is an economy car and that's the reason I bought it. I wanted the highest MPG car that used the cheapest fuel, and the owner's manual states that it will run on any gasoline of 87 octane or higher. I tried running some 93 octane in it to see if it helped, but it still pinged, although maybe not quite as bad.
What gives?

 

[Quest]

I'd pull the spark plugs and read them to determine the combustion chamber's condition before proceeding to doing anything drastic.

high compression ratio shouldn't be an issue to begin with (mine fit is also very high compression ratio...but with knock sensor to tame it down to using 87 octane gas), assuming that your owner's manual recommends you to use 87 octane gas.

all other stuff are sheer speculations until proven otherwise.

Q.

 

[Digital2k2]

Could it just be deposits on the valves due to the direct injection never washing fuel by them?
I think a lot of manufacturers recommend a fairly often cleaning... Is there a way for your average do-it-yourselfer to clean them yet?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Digital2k2
Could it just be deposits on the valves due to the direct injection never washing fuel by them?

That's your answer. No matter how much detergent is in the fuel in the first place, if fuel doesn't contact the intake valves at all, it's not going to do much cleaning. I had heard of DIY intake valve cleaning on DI engines, but that would be extremely platform dependent.

 

[ARB1977]

Try a top end cleaner like sea foam.

 

[TrevorS]

Top tier is not a scam. However, it is only a maintenance dose and DI engines are anyhow more of a challenge than non DI cars.

First step is to add a bottle of Techron Concentrate or the cheaper Gumout Regane or All In One prior to your next fill up (you can skip using top tier gas for that fill).

The next step would be a product or service that cleans through the air intake such as the 3M home kit or Walmarts $20 service.

I mention these as they are the economy measures and have all worked for me.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Actually the first step is to determine why it knocks. Until you know why it is silly to throw snake oil at the problem.

It should have knock sensors that retard the timing automatically at the time the 'pinging' occurs. Take it to the dealer and show it to them.

 

[Roadkingnc]

Take it out and drive it like you stole it, multiple times.

 

[Danno]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Actually the first step is to determine why it knocks. Until you know why it is silly to throw snake oil at the problem.

It should have knock sensors that retard the timing automatically at the time the 'pinging' occurs. Take it to the dealer and show it to them.


This.

 

[RamFan]

Originally Posted By: Danno
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Actually the first step is to determine why it knocks. Until you know why it is silly to throw snake oil at the problem.

It should have knock sensors that retard the timing automatically at the time the 'pinging' occurs. Take it to the dealer and show it to them.


This.


x3

As a side note-
Top Tier is very good gas, but DI is relatively new (in today's quantities) so it is IMO that the gasoline industry has yet to tweak their formulations to address some DI issues.

 

[Donald]

Techron would be my choice as one of the things it does is to deal with deposits in the cylinder.

Examine the plugs.

Get a camera probe and look inside the cylinders. They are pretty cheap these days.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I think the idea of run it up to redline a few times when warm is the best suggestion so far.

 

[stephen9666]

The car should still have a powertrain warranty, so take it to the dealer and see what they say.

Also, Hyundai makes all their tech info available for free on their technical site. You can check for any TSBs there.

 

[cchase]

As always, DI intake issues are separate from fuel used, since fuel is not washing over the intake valves to keep them clean. The fuel (or fuel additive) you use probably won't make much difference.

 

[rshaw125]

This is an engine design issue. Top Tier gas won't perform miracles.

 

[dparm]

I'll get ripped a new one here, but that whole "toptiergas.com" or whatever the stupid website is feels like a bunch of clever marketing. Yes it is true that everyone blends their gas additives differently, but there are EPA-mandated minimums. I guess it comes down to how much faith you have in the EPA's requirements.

I'll tell you this...I buy my gas from the cheapest station. Sometimes it's Mobil, sometime's it's Marathon, other times it's Valero. And you know what? All of my cars, in their tens of thousands of miles, have NEVER had a problem with "bad gas" or whatever people want to call it.

How many millions of cars over the last 50+ years have put the so called "non-top-tier" gas in their tanks over millions of miles and run just fine?

 

[Falken]

If you get build up on the intake valves on a DI engine, they don't get cleaned by the fuel.

You have to research how and when you should have the intake valves cleaned on your particular make and model of car.

When you are thoroughly read up on the issue, then you can find a way to clean them yourself and with what tools and products, or if the dealer does something special with compressed air and walnut shell abrasive.

When you know how your DI engine needs to be cleaned, and you watch them do it, it will allow you to enjoy your engine more as there are a few differences in these new engines.

When you want sky high MPG there are always compromises, I don't think this is really a bad one.

If build up on an intake valve affects the "swirl" of the AF mixture, you will have rich spots and air pockets, and that is where the "ping" is coming from. If the plug ignites into an irregular mixture it will cause small explosions all around the combustion chamber and not give a smooth uniform burn.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: Roadkingnc
Take it out and drive it like you stole it, multiple times.


This. Go for a 20+min run of RPMs over 4,500. Maybe do a couple of those. See if that helps yours like it does VW/Audis.

But you should also run fuel system cleaners to keep the injectors clean. DI injectors are somewhat high maintenance items if you want them to stay clean due to the high temps and pressures they see.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

High specific output engines need some WOT driving to keep the CC clean - no need for redline but WOT up to say 5Krpm a few times a day in higher gears. Honda uses heavy EGR volume to keep ping in check - does Hyundai use EGR? Is your egr exhaust passage(s) open?

Otherwise, Falken has a well considered "Engineer's" response.

 

[Mystic]

What SteveSRT8 said is correct. You don't start trying to fix a problem that develops with just fuel system cleaners. Sounds like the car has some problems. If it is still under warranty take it to the dealership. How long is the warranty? If there is some kind of issue with DI engines it should affect more than just one car. It would probably be a known issue and potentially subject to a recall.