Fuel dilution - how harmful, how much wear?

[SC Maintenance]

That doesn’t show any actual effects, but thank you for the in depth research you showed

I haven't seen any good study that supports either side, and we likely never will because the only ones with the money to do so are the OEM's, and if they ever did it they wouldn't share. Given dilution is sort of a new thing - yes it has existed in the past but with short OCI recommendations and no GDI only engines it wasn't that prevalent. Its likely we won't know for a while.

I think its intuitive to say that Gasoline is not a lubricant, and contaminating a lubricant with a non lubricant is certainly not helpful. The real question of course is how big of a problem is it, and that we don't really know.

 

[DirectRejection]

There is nothing that can be done in terms of oil formulation to mitigate the detrimental effects of fuel dilution. The only thing that can be done by the owner is don't short trip the car much if possible, and if dilution is obviously excessive then run an oil grade higher and change the oil more often. That's assuming there isn't a problem with the car like bad injectors or other things making it run way too rich and overly diluting the oil.

I do understand the concept.

BITOG say "viscosity is king !!!!!!! "

My recollection from HPL OH #1 is that the experts were asked about this common sense adjustment, and they were lukewarm in response.

So, my mancrush on HPL 10W20 continues, especially where XX- W-20 is spec'd.

Canadians and Chinese, you are on your own.

 

[ZeeOSix]

My recollection from HPL OH #1 is that the experts were asked about this common sense adjustment, and they were lukewarm in response.

How else are you going to mitigate it in a vehicle with excessive fuel dilution beside what's already been said?

 

[kschachn]

Viscosity is king as it relates to oil and fuel dilution. No brand of oil resists the mechanical dilution by a lower viscosity fluid any better than another.

 

[DirectRejection]

"If fuel dilution is a problem, use a high quality synthetic motor oil, to guard against accelerated wear."

Who am I to argue with an AMSOIL Blog post ?

 

[kschachn]

Who am I to argue with an AMSOIL Blog post ?

A high quality synthetic oil typically will have less of a high quality VII which indeed does resist VII degradation better. However that is not the first-order problem.

 

[DirectRejection]

This peer viewed research paper which is published a few months earlier digs deep and explores this topic from every possible angle. It's in Russian however and I haven't had a chance to translate and review it yet, but if someone speaks Russian or has read this article, please summarize this for us!

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/370769409_Fuel_dilution_of_engine_oil_causes_and_effects_Part_I_and_Part_II

Thank you Sandstorm !!

 

[DirectRejection]

I want to get in APIs face before they create the GF-7 tests.

 

[ZeeOSix]

This peer viewed research paper which is published a few months earlier digs deep and explores this topic from every possible angle. It's in Russian however and I haven't had a chance to translate and review it yet, but if someone speaks Russian or has read this article, please summarize this for us!

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/370769409_Fuel_dilution_of_engine_oil_causes_and_effects_Part_I_and_Part_II

How do you know it "explores this topic from every possible angle" if you can't read Russian and haven't translated & read it?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Source:

Fuel Dilution -- The Cause, Effect, and Detection

Fuel Dilution is the thinning of engine oil by gasoline or diesel fuel. During the service life of the engine oil, some amount of fuel dilution is inevitable, but several factors can cause excessive dilution:

www.savantlab.com

 

[Sandstorm]

How do you know it "explores this topic from every possible angle" if you can't read Russian and haven't translated & read it?

I looked at the graphs (partially in English) and looked through all the pages. It certainly looks like it's digs deep into the topic and more importantly it's peer reviewed rather than a random dude's mumbles.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I looked at the graphs (partially in English) and looked through all the pages. It certainly looks like it's digs deep into the topic and more importantly it's peer reviewed rather than a random dude's mumbles.

I looked through the graphs - some are in English, and the abstract is in English. I don't think this is a study on the affects of dilution on an engine, but a study on how to measure dilution, its affect on oil consumption (maybe??) and some other ancillary analysis, like how to calculate oil consumption in diluted fuel. I saw no charts representing engine wear or anything related to it, nor is it mentioned in the abstract?

The abstract:

Annotation. Annotation. Annotation. Turbocharged gasoline engines with direct injection (DI) fuels are widely used in cars in almost all classes. However, as practice has shown, DI have an increased risk of excess fuel accumulation in engine oil, which in turn can lead to a significant reduction in engine reliability and durability. The study of this problem and the search for technical solutions to reduce the risk of oil dilution with fuel is an actual task. The purpose of the research is to study and identify the causes, conditions for fuel to enter the oil and to determine the patterns of changes in the concentration of fuel (%Fuel) in the oil depending on the load, speed modes and external operating conditions of the SI in the vehicle. The work used both standard methods of bench and laboratory road tests, as well as special methods for determining %Fuel. The experience of applying a new simple and reliable method for determining %Fuel is presented. Regularities of fuel accumulation in oil depending on engine temperature speed and load conditions are obtained. A physical model of the interaction of fuel and oil under the conditions of a running engine is proposed. It is shown what happens to the fuel in the oil during operation under various conditions and what is the effectiveness of methods to reduce %Fuel. The developed method for determining %Fuel, in addition to solving problems of analyzing engine oil, made it possible to refine the gravimetric method for measuring oil consumption by introducing a correction for %Fuel, which significantly increases the reliability of determining oil consumption both during bench tests and in operation.

 

[Sandstorm]

I looked through the graphs - some are in English, and the abstract is in English. I don't think this is a study on the affects of dilution on an engine, but a study on how to measure dilution, its affect on oil consumption (maybe??) and some other ancillary analysis, like how to calculate oil consumption in diluted fuel. I saw no charts representing engine wear or anything related to it, nor is it mentioned in the abstract?

The abstract:

Annotation. Annotation. Annotation. Turbocharged gasoline engines with direct injection (DI) fuels are widely used in cars in almost all classes. However, as practice has shown, DI have an increased risk of excess fuel accumulation in engine oil, which in turn can lead to a significant reduction in engine reliability and durability. The study of this problem and the search for technical solutions to reduce the risk of oil dilution with fuel is an actual task. The purpose of the research is to study and identify the causes, conditions for fuel to enter the oil and to determine the patterns of changes in the concentration of fuel (%Fuel) in the oil depending on the load, speed modes and external operating conditions of the SI in the vehicle. The work used both standard methods of bench and laboratory road tests, as well as special methods for determining %Fuel. The experience of applying a new simple and reliable method for determining %Fuel is presented. Regularities of fuel accumulation in oil depending on engine temperature speed and load conditions are obtained. A physical model of the interaction of fuel and oil under the conditions of a running engine is proposed. It is shown what happens to the fuel in the oil during operation under various conditions and what is the effectiveness of methods to reduce %Fuel. The developed method for determining %Fuel, in addition to solving problems of analyzing engine oil, made it possible to refine the gravimetric method for measuring oil consumption by introducing a correction for %Fuel, which significantly increases the reliability of determining oil consumption both during bench tests and in operation.

SC Maintenance! Thanks for looking into it! What about Part 2?

Part II is a continuation of the study of problems associated with oil contamination by fuel. Here are considered practical issues related to the measurement of oil consumption. The presence of fuel in the oil without the introduction of appropriate corrections can lead to a loss of reliability of oil consumption measurements and erroneous conclusions about the technical condition of the engine. The experience of applying a new simple and reliable method for determining %Fuel is presented. Regularities of fuel accumulation in oil are obtained depending on operating conditions - engine temperature, speed and load conditions.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Turbocharged gasoline engines with direct injection (DI) fuels are widely used in cars in almost all classes. However, as practice has shown, DI have an increased risk of excess fuel accumulation in engine oil, which in turn can lead to a significant reduction in engine reliability and durability.

And the bold part in ^^ that ^^ statement from the Abstract is a recurring culmination in every information source about excessive fuel dilution.

 

[SC Maintenance]

And the bold part in ^^ that ^^ statement from the Abstract is a recurring culmination in every information source about excessive fuel dilution.

Yes I agree, but the study seems not to study that part at all - it seems assumed, which is why I did not bold it.

I am not arguing for or against it - just pointing out that this study itself I don't think is a source of proof of the affects of dilution. Perhaps someone will translate it and we can find out for sure.

 

[SC Maintenance]

SC Maintenance! Thanks for looking into it! What about Part 2?

Part II is a continuation of the study of problems associated with oil contamination by fuel. Here are considered practical issues related to the measurement of oil consumption. The presence of fuel in the oil without the introduction of appropriate corrections can lead to a loss of reliability of oil consumption measurements and erroneous conclusions about the technical condition of the engine. The experience of applying a new simple and reliable method for determining %Fuel is presented. Regularities of fuel accumulation in oil are obtained depending on operating conditions - engine temperature, speed and load conditions.

That seems to be discussing a method for determining % dilution. It seems to be assuming dilution is bad. It seems to assume engine damage - but nowhere does it discuss any proof of that assumption, in the abstract or any chart.

Again, I am not arguing for or against, but I see nothing in the abstract or in any of the charts that point to any study of engine wear in that study at all.

My personal opinion is dilution is either bad, or very bad. But alas, I have no proof either.

Again, I don't speak Russian so I only have so much to go on.

 

[Sandstorm]

That seems to be discussing a method for determining % dilution. It seems to be assuming dilution is bad. It seems to assume engine damage - but nowhere does it discuss any proof of that assumption, in the abstract or any chart.

Again, I am not arguing for or against, but I see nothing in the abstract or in any of the charts that point to any study of engine wear in that study at all.

My personal opinion is dilution is either bad, or very bad. But alas, I have no proof either.

Again, I don't speak Russian so I only have so much to go on.

If head of universities, professors with PhD degree who do this for living and teach mechanical engineering, and peer reviewed research shows or even assumes that fuel dilution is bad, then I think it's safe for me to assume that it is bad. That's my thinking but to each their own!

 

[ZeeOSix]

Yes I agree, but the study seems not to study that part at all - it seems assumed, which is why I did not bold it.

I am not arguing for or against it - just pointing out that this study itself I don't think is a source of proof of the affects of dilution. Perhaps someone will translate it and we can find out for sure.

Yep, it doesn't address the detriments directly, but makes the general statement that excessive fuel dilution isn't a good thing for engines. That was my point, that it can be harmful and damaging if too much.

 

[demarpaint]

Yep, it doesn't address the detriments directly, but makes the general statement that excessive fuel dilution isn't a good thing for engines. That was my point, that it can be harmful and damaging if too much.

True, but as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water. You've done that, now the horses can decide what they want to do. This horse is happy he doesn't have a DI engine, if he did he'd be running a grade, "thicker" than stated on the fill cap oil, totally ignore the OLM, run shorter OCI's with a few UOAs and base an OCI on info gathered from those UOAs.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Yep, it doesn't address the detriments directly, but makes the general statement that excessive fuel dilution isn't a good thing for engines. That was my point, that it can be harmful and damaging if too much.

I agree, but its not a definitive statement driven by test data. Its like me or you saying it. Its in their pre-amble.

How bad? Does it shorten engine life? By how much? How much dilution is too much, etc. We still don't know. This study does not change that. I would actually like to know.

Again, I am not disagreeing with your position on dilution, but said Russian article was presented here as a scientific comprehensive study on the topic, but I don't believe it is. It appears to be a study on measuring dilution, not its affects. Again, based on what I can discern from it.