Fresh tires on the front or rear?
- Thread starter dumkid
- Start date
Opposite corners ?
Here's my story:
I used to work for a tire manufacturer and every year we would hold an even at your proving grounds to show off our new products.
One of the events was demonstration about what happens when you only replace 2 tires and where they should go.
We had 3 identical cars. One with 4 new tires, one with new tires on the rear, and worn tires on the front, and one with new tires on the front, and worn tires on the rear.
We had everyone (one at a time) drive around a large skid pad where a portion was flooded with a small amount of water - I'm guessing about 1/8". The speed was 40 to 50 mph.
The 4 new tires drove right through the wet spot. The car with 2 new tires on the rear, hydroplaned at the front, but you were still pointed in the right direction and had steering control.
But the car with the new tires on the front ALWAYS spun out. This is sometimes very disturbing to folks who believed otherwise.
We used to do this with RWD cars, but those were heavy and spinning out was kind of rough on the cars. So we switched to small FWD's.
We put hundreds of people through this exercise.
O what about rotating tires? Well. not rotating got you into this mess and not rotating is going to get you out as the front tires on a FWD wear very fast compared to the rear, so at some point you'll have fairly similar tires front to rear.
I used to work for a tire manufacturer and every year we would hold an even at your proving grounds to show off our new products.
One of the events was demonstration about what happens when you only replace 2 tires and where they should go.
We had 3 identical cars. One with 4 new tires, one with new tires on the rear, and worn tires on the front, and one with new tires on the front, and worn tires on the rear.
We had everyone (one at a time) drive around a large skid pad where a portion was flooded with a small amount of water - I'm guessing about 1/8". The speed was 40 to 50 mph.
The 4 new tires drove right through the wet spot. The car with 2 new tires on the rear, hydroplaned at the front, but you were still pointed in the right direction and had steering control.
But the car with the new tires on the front ALWAYS spun out. This is sometimes very disturbing to folks who believed otherwise.
We used to do this with RWD cars, but those were heavy and spinning out was kind of rough on the cars. So we switched to small FWD's.
We put hundreds of people through this exercise.
O what about rotating tires? Well. not rotating got you into this mess and not rotating is going to get you out as the front tires on a FWD wear very fast compared to the rear, so at some point you'll have fairly similar tires front to rear.
Not about “blowing” - it’s about snap oversteer if you hydroplane. Much more likely that you’ll hydroplane than have a blowout.
If you can’t handle a front blowout, then you certainly can’t handle snap oversteer.
Read CapriRacer’s post.
OP, the way I learned it working in the tire industry for a few years, if you have a front drive car, then generally the new tires would go on the rear.
If you have near bald tires up front and half worn tires in the rear, then move the half-worn tires to the front, and install new tires on the rear.
For a rear drive, this is generally the same but you don't want bald tires on the front to increase hydroplaning dangers.
The added weight of the engine/trans in the front help in hydroplaning resistance but only a small amount.
This changes if you have an AWD vehicle, meaning full-time AWD, then you replace all 4. Different rotating diameters can damage AWD components if extreme enough, and that can be 2/32" or more.
If you have near bald tires up front and half worn tires in the rear, then move the half-worn tires to the front, and install new tires on the rear.
For a rear drive, this is generally the same but you don't want bald tires on the front to increase hydroplaning dangers.
The added weight of the engine/trans in the front help in hydroplaning resistance but only a small amount.
This changes if you have an AWD vehicle, meaning full-time AWD, then you replace all 4. Different rotating diameters can damage AWD components if extreme enough, and that can be 2/32" or more.
ALWAYS good tires in the rear.
As far a blowouts, I blew a front tire on my 1974 V8 Vega street-strip car at 100mph. Didn't even know it other than the
shredding tire chewing up the front left fender. Car stood straight and level under slight power and held the rim off the ground. I was always amazed at that; .I said to myself, NP! Piece of cake!
But that was rear wheel drive
Hard to steer when the rear is going "wherever" or you are looping on the interstate highway at 70 mph.
As far a blowouts, I blew a front tire on my 1974 V8 Vega street-strip car at 100mph. Didn't even know it other than the
shredding tire chewing up the front left fender. Car stood straight and level under slight power and held the rim off the ground. I was always amazed at that; .I said to myself, NP! Piece of cake!
But that was rear wheel drive
Hard to steer when the rear is going "wherever" or you are looping on the interstate highway at 70 mph.
Zee09
$200 Site Donor 2023
A high school kid...
Wow that's great I'm looking for a new protege as @AutoMechanic is getting old and I suspect in 29 years he may start dating...
I'll never understand buying just two tires. I understand your stated financial constraints, but have you shopped around to see what you can get a set of 4 for, even if they are 30K or so on treadwear? Or, perhaps in a large metro like Phoenix you can find a good set of 4 used ones in your size?
There are used tire shops around here that offer great value. I've used them numerous times when funds were short.
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
I've always wondered with this test how the car would perform with 4 equally worn tires?
For 125 each, i think the new tires are better value than used tires (around 75 each for decent condition half worn tires) or New Chinese tires (100 each, I don't know if they have a warranty) the 125 each tires (from Walmart) are made in USA, have fairly good reviews, and have a 50,000 mile warranty, and i can get a road hazard warranty too. If the new tires last almost twice as long as used cheap ones, then I got the same $ per mile out of them. If I really didn't have any money then I would get used tires, but the tires I've found on marketplace or in used tire places are either bald or over 6 years old.
4 wheel slide?
Depends on minute differences in traction.
May be front first or rear first. Really dynamic situation.
IMHO
Krzyś
The only time a tire shop would let me put new tires on the front if I bought 2 is if they are different size than the rear. Reasoning being if you lost traction on the rear you can spun out and that's a lot more dangerous than if you lost traction and increase braking distance.
Realistically you still want to keep doing them to keep the tread as even as possible. Personally, I would disregard rotations unless you have an AWD car.
I rotate and use air pressure to keep the wear even. Back tires usually under the recommended and front usually over if any compensation is needed, on the Accent. The Gen Coupe has different size tires front and rear so I swap side to side with it.
My introduction to the rear hydroplaning was with a '73 Lemans GT with the 70 series Goodyear Polygalas tires. Was slow passing a car in the rain and the back end decided to go faster that the front and went into the ditch rear first. Bent the factory side exhaust forward in front of the wheel. When the pulled it out of the ditch it straightened that out and you could not even tell it got bent.
My introduction to the rear hydroplaning was with a '73 Lemans GT with the 70 series Goodyear Polygalas tires. Was slow passing a car in the rain and the back end decided to go faster that the front and went into the ditch rear first. Bent the factory side exhaust forward in front of the wheel. When the pulled it out of the ditch it straightened that out and you could not even tell it got bent.
It's similar to losing traction in snow and ice, you end up hydroplaning like crazy until one end manages to gain traction - then you have to hope the end that has traction doesn't end up whipping the non-traction end around.
Mine are normally within 2/32" all around. On the FWD cars I'll put the ones with more tread on front as they wear more. During the 3 season time they might wear 3-4/32" while the rears barely wore. Next 3 season they will get swapped to the rear, cross rotated. My winter tires are the same way, they get swapped front>rear each season as they are all directional patterns. On my AWD's I'll rotate more often to keep it closer if possible. Put money on the side now so when you need 4 it's ready.
When the 3 season get to about 4/32" it's normally time for me to get 4 new. Winters that is at 6/32".
I recommend to all I know when asked, put the new on the rear if only getting 2.
I've experienced personally having 2 good winter tires on front of a Honda Civic with 2 good full tread "all season" on the rear. It only took one spin on a rural road in front of a truck to explain why you want 4 matching tread tires and why 4 winter tires are recommended. Father-in-law didn't rotate on a CRV and wore the fronts to almost bald with 1/2 tread or more on the rear until the rear differential died. Expensive lesson for him on rotating and keeping even tread in an AWD.
When the 3 season get to about 4/32" it's normally time for me to get 4 new. Winters that is at 6/32".
I recommend to all I know when asked, put the new on the rear if only getting 2.
I've experienced personally having 2 good winter tires on front of a Honda Civic with 2 good full tread "all season" on the rear. It only took one spin on a rural road in front of a truck to explain why you want 4 matching tread tires and why 4 winter tires are recommended. Father-in-law didn't rotate on a CRV and wore the fronts to almost bald with 1/2 tread or more on the rear until the rear differential died. Expensive lesson for him on rotating and keeping even tread in an AWD.
We never did that, but a guess would be that since the worn tires hydroplaned, if all 4 did, the car's characteristics would dominate.
HOWEVER, one of the things I noticed when monitoring this exercise was how many people panicked when the tires hydroplaned - and panicky people tend to sharply apply the brakes - and I'll bet that would cause the vehicle to spin out.
Yeah used tires are not worth what people are asking, 95% of the time. These people want their money back for mounting, alignment, and road hazard all of which don't transfer to the next buyer. I used to have a junkyard sell them for $5-10, just to get rid of them. They're up to $25-30 which is still tolerable, because everything's more expensive and they're well organized with one stop shopping.
I have my own tire machine so it's worth it, but the price of mounting should be included when a prospective buyer does the math on used tires. I'd pick a 2-month old FB ad, reply to it, and offer them $25 a tire, see if they bite.
Keep in mind when front wheel drive became widespread in the mid 80"s many, if not everyone advised to "always put new ones on the front!" The logic being 1) more tread depth to aid in tracking and handling, rear wheels just follow) and 2) more wear occurs (because of #1), so better to have more tread present. Some "experts" said that. Point is, even the experts have opinions, which are...opinions, subject to change.Here we go.
In spite of experts like Tire Rack, Discount, Goodyear, Michelin, Les Schwab, Popular Mechanics, Tesla, Uniroyal, and on and on saying to put on the rear you'll be told by some to put them on the front. The only internet experts who say put them on the front are unknown individuals or entities with an opinion.
This is kind of like viscosity, one size doesn't necessarily fit all. Factors exist, such as dry vs. wet climate, snow / no snow, vehicle type, etc.
