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I'm sure this has been mentioned here before, but when you change consistently with the exact same oil, does that keep the "oci wear" down (if my terminology makes any sense 
)?
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Frequent oil changes cause more wear?!
- Thread starter OM605
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Why is it when an engine is rebuilt they use high Zinc and Phosphorus break-in oil to protect the engine during the crucial break in time? Clearly if it took 2-3K miles there would be a be a lot of problems breaking in a rebuilt engine. The high ZDDP and phosphorus are clearly working out of the gate, it's not taking long for them to work especially for new cams [they usually take 20 minutes to break in, done wrong they're ruined]. It appears the film and additives are working their magic pretty quick.
Interesting topic, maybe one of our resident experts can shed some light on this.
Interesting topic, maybe one of our resident experts can shed some light on this.
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During a normal oci there's a phosphate film present, not so when you just rebuilt an engine. You want loads of phosphorous or moly right there right then to react to the extreme pressures and temperatures of metal on metal contact after rebuilding.
The old phosphate glass film gets stripped and replaced by the new chemistry alledgedly after each oil change
The old phosphate glass film gets stripped and replaced by the new chemistry alledgedly after each oil change
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So using the exact same oil with the same chemistry would be ideal?
Yes. My point is once the engine is primed and running in the case of the new cam, the ZDDP and phosphorus are working, almost instantly. 20 minutes later change the oil, fill with fresh oil, there's still a film remaining, and as it gets depleted it is replenished.
FTR as I stated earlier I based my OCI on UOA reports. I'm not dumping good oil every 3k miles, and in my case good synthetic oil would never make the 10K miles so many here say it could in blanket statements.
rebuilt engine likely is tighter, it can be higher risk for metal welding. (without good amount additives)
I don't know, we can't assume the chemistry doesn't change when the oil gets used. I didn't pay too much attention back then as in the end the oil needs changing anyway. I have a diesel so fuel dilution and soot are also considerations when to change oil
Interesting thread and even more so very interesting concepts about oil.
All I can say so not to ruffle thin skinned members is get your oil analyzed more frequently and then learn real information you collect about you personal engine.
For a street driven Dailey driven gasoline fueled engine. Get a base line of information about your engine. Perform compression test and leak-down test & log the mileage. Obtain a sample of oil by removing the drain plug and acquiring a sample of existing oil. DO NOT DRAIN the complete pan. Send it to in to have analyzed. Start a detailed MPG log. Try to set a pattern to use the same brand gasoline and octane. If possible use the same chosen gas station. For a few oil changes use the same filter brand and type as well the same viscosity and brand oil. After one year through all the seasons of normal driving and presumably you have done at least 2 oil and filter changes and had both analyzed on or close to the same date repeat the compression and leak down test and compare all your notes!
You all can state informed and confirmable Empirical Data and very good chemical operational information about some motor oils and how it is suppose to perform or claimed . In the real world operation with so many variables no one knows exactly how well any motor oil will perform in their personal engine and how you operate your engine and maintain it. Unless you do some testing. Who really is going to do that? Most are DIY and only want read what will make you feel good about what they choose to use for motor oil. Nothing wrong with that at all.
I generally give my customers a choice and not get into technical data about motor oils. Frankly most top brand motor oils are really pretty darn good in most engines anyway. And I have yet to see any Empirical Data to indicate the "BEST" motor oil for most applications!
I have never ever seen proven data that some of us that choose to more frequently change our motor oil and filter are harming the engine in anyway. In fact for some of us that also frequently invest and have done oil analysis the reports indicate a more positive result changing the oil and filter sooner then what the auto manufacture recommends. .
If anyone has a sampling of oil analyses showing other then what I just suggested I would love to have you post it!
And I don't mean a report from one that states you could go several more x=miles more next time before changing oil! Ya, cuz I get them all the time! LOL
All I can say so not to ruffle thin skinned members is get your oil analyzed more frequently and then learn real information you collect about you personal engine.
For a street driven Dailey driven gasoline fueled engine. Get a base line of information about your engine. Perform compression test and leak-down test & log the mileage. Obtain a sample of oil by removing the drain plug and acquiring a sample of existing oil. DO NOT DRAIN the complete pan. Send it to in to have analyzed. Start a detailed MPG log. Try to set a pattern to use the same brand gasoline and octane. If possible use the same chosen gas station. For a few oil changes use the same filter brand and type as well the same viscosity and brand oil. After one year through all the seasons of normal driving and presumably you have done at least 2 oil and filter changes and had both analyzed on or close to the same date repeat the compression and leak down test and compare all your notes!
You all can state informed and confirmable Empirical Data and very good chemical operational information about some motor oils and how it is suppose to perform or claimed . In the real world operation with so many variables no one knows exactly how well any motor oil will perform in their personal engine and how you operate your engine and maintain it. Unless you do some testing. Who really is going to do that? Most are DIY and only want read what will make you feel good about what they choose to use for motor oil. Nothing wrong with that at all.
I generally give my customers a choice and not get into technical data about motor oils. Frankly most top brand motor oils are really pretty darn good in most engines anyway. And I have yet to see any Empirical Data to indicate the "BEST" motor oil for most applications!
I have never ever seen proven data that some of us that choose to more frequently change our motor oil and filter are harming the engine in anyway. In fact for some of us that also frequently invest and have done oil analysis the reports indicate a more positive result changing the oil and filter sooner then what the auto manufacture recommends. .
If anyone has a sampling of oil analyses showing other then what I just suggested I would love to have you post it!
And I don't mean a report from one that states you could go several more x=miles more next time before changing oil! Ya, cuz I get them all the time! LOL
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Look at 11:10, nuff said IMO.
This is true, but many people who just swapped out a cam learned the hard way about using the proper break in oil and method. In 20 minutes or less a cam can be destroyed.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...fresh-oil-break-in-period.286781/post-4801971
According to the paper mentioned it looks like the oils viscosity increased from a 20 to a thick 40 grade as the OCI went on. This is probably the only explanation that makes sense as to why it might reduce valve train wear and friction. It's fairly common knowledge around here that the KV100 viscosity has a large effect on valve train/timing chain wear.
If that's the case than perhaps we should all just be using a 40 grade whenever possible.
According to the paper mentioned it looks like the oils viscosity increased from a 20 to a thick 40 grade as the OCI went on. This is probably the only explanation that makes sense as to why it might reduce valve train wear and friction. It's fairly common knowledge around here that the KV100 viscosity has a large effect on valve train/timing chain wear.
If that's the case than perhaps we should all just be using a 40 grade whenever possible.
The article is from 2007, oil has improved since then, and it goes on to say this: "These findings could be an enabler for achieving longer drain interval although several other factors must to be considered." That indicates to me there's more to it. So if you really want to get your OCI dialed in get a UOA. That's what I did, it was well worth the $10 I spent. Then there's the added value of knowing if your oil is staying in grade, your air filter is doing it's job, coolant is staying in the cooling system, you don't have a problem with a fuel injector/injectors, etc, and you're not wasting good oil.
BlueOvalFitter
Site Donor 2023
If this is true, my engine should be worn slap out!
True^^^. Same here.
Me too.
gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
Maybe a massive amount of ZDDP is necessary because there is no tribal layer to prevent excessive wear. The additional initial loading mitigates the lack of a tribal layer That may have otherwise formed given the right amount of time and heat.Yes. My point is once the engine is primed and running in the case of the new cam, the ZDDP and phosphorus are working, almost instantly. 20 minutes later change the oil, fill with fresh oil, there's still a film remaining, and as it gets depleted it is replenished.
FTR as I stated earlier I based my OCI on UOA reports. I'm not dumping good oil every 3k miles, and in my case good synthetic oil would never make the 10K miles so many here say it could in blanket statements.
gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
Great thread, btw.
Good point! But I will circle back to this statement in the article: "These findings could be an enabler for achieving longer drain interval although several other factors must to be considered." Operative words for me are several other factors. A lot plays into this.
Since later discussions unable to prove that short OCI is harmful, why not enjoy new oil's smoothness?
That's two strikes for me.
1. Our Santa Fe Sport 2.0T is a Hyundai who's engine should have blown long ago.
2. The oil is changed every 3K miles/4 months since new. Even a few conventional Valvoline changes here and there.
Currently into the 230,000's. (miles)
Wife drives it in rush hour traffic daily and now sees little hwy time.
1. Our Santa Fe Sport 2.0T is a Hyundai who's engine should have blown long ago.
2. The oil is changed every 3K miles/4 months since new. Even a few conventional Valvoline changes here and there.
Currently into the 230,000's. (miles)
Wife drives it in rush hour traffic daily and now sees little hwy time.
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